Front wheel; radial or cross spokes

Someone told me once than for a front (non disk brake) road or cyclo-cross wheel radial spoke configuration is stronger than having the spokes crossed.

Is this true?

3x

That is definitely true, I have radial front and back and ride around on London cobbled streets all days as a Courier delivering many special parcels and other messages in London and I have never had a puncture. I use radial Gatorskins though

is that when you're not chroming?

General rule is the more crosses the better.

Count the number of holes in the rim/hub and then divide by 9. The rounded down ans. gives you the maximum number of crosses its advisable to use.

^that's not right, is it? Surely if you went 4x on a 36h rim/hub, you'd get spoke heads partially obscured?

General rule is the more crosses the better.

Count the number of holes in the rim/hub and then divide by 9. The rounded down ans. gives you the maximum number of crosses its advisable to use.

^that's not right, is it? Surely if you went 4x on a 36h rim/hub, you'd get spoke heads partially obscured?

Its not about the number of crosses but the angle that the spoke leaves the hub. Radial spoke patterns do not resist twisting of the hub, and the spokes experiance a greater difference in strain on bumpy roads. This doesnt make them more likely to break. But it can lead to them losening, and the wheel needing retruing more frequently. The ideal angle is 90 deg from the hub (in relation to a radial spoke). This just happens to be around 3x for 32 and 36. Which are the most common used. 2x would actually be better for a 24 or 28 spoked wheel.

There is an argument for a radial pattern giving a more laterally stiff wheel, due to the bracing angle being the same while the spokes themselves are shorter. Roughly the same reason is given for the popular 'radial wheels are uncomfortable to ride' myth. But this is more down to tensions needing to be higher.

Radial is more aero though.

Someone told me once than...Is this true?

Generalsimple rule is bla...bla...bla...idiots ans...bla..bla...bla...

Its not about the number of crosses but the angle that the spoke leaves the hub....This just happens to be around 3x for 32 and 36. Which are the most common used. 2x would actually be better for a 24 or 28 spoked wheel.
...

^ You're right. If anyone wants the real in depth ans. to all things wheelbuilding, read Jost Brands Art of Wheelbuilding. I've tried and came to the conclusion that you basically want the most crosses and holes/9 = ans. :s

Radial is more aero though.

most importantly, it looks rad

^that's not right, is it? Surely if you went 4x on a 36h rim/hub, you'd get spoke heads partially obscured?

Depends on the build. Usually high flange is fine, low flange isn't. But it depends, BMX wheels have short spokes, so you can get away with 4x on a LF. This is because;

Its not about the number of crosses but the angle that the spoke leaves the hub...

^^Personally I only really like radial front when the rear is half radial, otherwise it just looks missmatched.

^ You're right. If anyone wants the real in depth ans. to all things wheelbuilding, read Jost Brands Art of Wheelbuilding. I've tried and came to the conclusion that you basically want the most crosses and holes/9 = ans. :s

If you want to get mega techy (yes I love this shit). You can imagine a wave diagram representing the strain experianced by the spokes while riding. The closer to 90deg the lower the amplitude, with 0 (radial) giving the maximum. This requires more tension to keep the nipples from working loose through the repeated cycle.

Going all radial does mean you can put all the spokes 'heads-in' giving a better overal bracing angle. I imagine thats a pretty small difference though. Still, when my rims arrive I'll be building a 20 spoke radial front, using a nice wide Tune Mig70.

The rear will be triplet, 16 spoke 3x, DS and 8 spoke 1x, NDS. The triplet pattern looks rad with radial NDS (as you say Hugo7, it matches the front too), but Tune dont recomend it for their 32 hole hubs.

(NB: I'm just a nerd, not a pro wheel builder)

most importantly, it looks rad

Aero, rad, and a bit lighter. What was it Bontrager said....?

so, how do you calculate which length of spokes you need? surely the more crossing (increased angle) means you need longer spokes especially compared to radial pattern?

use a spoke calculator.

A lot of hubs come with a warning that if you thread the spokes radially then the hub is not covered under warranty or guaranteed or whatever. crossing the spokes means youre pulling across more material so less likely to break. Never seen one break but there must be a reason why manufacturers put these warranty clauses out.

Only have one radial front wheel, and only one wheel that I have to true pretty regularly. They're the same one, FWIW. Can't say I ever seen a whole bunch of CX bikes with radial fronts.

I'm possibly about to buy a CX bike with a radial front.

It seems at odds with my instinct, even my winter road wheels are 2X and 3x (two winter wheelsets).

Any actual experience?*

I once saw a 'snowflake'-laced mountain-bike wheel, made by a mechanic in New Mills (Derbyshire) I think, a few years ago. Anyone ever seen one of these -- the spokes are actually curved around eachother, rather than straight...

Yeah
Funny lacing was all the rage with fixiebikes here in up famous london around the time the forum was started.

I imagine they don't re-true easily. Never used one. Seems like a waste of spokes, but I'm a skinflint and try to reuse where possible.