'Cause it's the cyclists that need educating...

Dumb Australians.

For God's sake Ed stop it. Nobody thought Charlie was asking us to have a look at the bloody weather forecast.

I've always wondered what the point of the weather forecast was/is.

I just look out the window. If it's raining I take a coat, if it's not... I don't.

Simples, no?

Yes I know I'm new to this site but......
It seems to me that people in general think they know their rights and know the law. As a result they bowl along by whatever means they choose and then get all bent out of shape because someone else broke the 'law' or transgressed the unwritten rule. If you choose to be on the inside of a turning vehicle or have that position thrust upon you then no amount of bitching and whingeing is going to mend your bike or bones. Take some responsibility for your own and other's safety and realise that riding like the tortoise and not the hare may actually be less stressful for everybody.
Soap-box vacated.

Yes I know I'm new to this site but......
It seems to me that people in general think they know their rights and know the law. As a result they bowl along by whatever means they choose and then get all bent out of shape because someone else broke the 'law' or transgressed the unwritten rule. If you choose to be on the inside of a turning vehicle or have that position thrust upon you then no amount of bitching and whingeing is going to mend your bike or bones. Take some responsibility for your own and other's safety and realise that riding like the tortoise and not the hare may actually be less stressful for everybody.
Soap-box vacated.

agreed.

That bike rage video makes me glad I don't live in Australia.

On the ASL approach lane question the Waterloo end of Baylis Road got redesigned over the summer so the cycle lane is in the middle of the two lanes (as most cyclist want to go straight on to the cut and drivers in the left lane were all turning left).
Just a shame this kind of thought doesn't go into more cycle infrastructure.

Dumb Australians.

+1

Well, the report is obviously very poor and full of ignorant prejudice, but firstly those tracks are very poor in quality, and secondly when this sort of rearguard action appears, it's not necessarily a bad thing that underlies it--it may just mean that cycling is getting more popular and it looks as if this part of town features a good few affluent citizens. Of course, if they were trigger-happy with the legislation, that would be a bad thing, but their first task is of course to reduce existing legislation. It'll be an interesting one to watch.

Come on, really? It's 'BEcause it's the cyclists WHO need educating.' Grammar people, Grammar!

Latecomer. :)

Always ;-P

Left side lanes work reasonably well in Copenhagen, they are much wider than here; drivers and cyclists are much calmer.
ASL s became much more common in London after a woman who worked for the Big Issue foundation was killed by a lorry at Penton st. The coroner criticised the left side lane that just ended about 4 metres before the junction, saying it led the cyclist into the danger area.

The big failure since then has been not telling cyclists to take the primary position in the box, making sure they can be seen. Drivers haven't been told to expect to see the cyclists there.

There was a massive battle over sections 61 and 63 of the Highway code. The first draft said cyclists should always use lanes, ASLs etc. CTC and other cycling groups got 10s thousands of signatures on a petition. They almost got sensible advice agreed but that was over-ruled by some politian leaving a mish-mash of conflicting statements. All that took focus away from rule 59 that lets cyclists think they are safer if they stick a helmet on.

I don't get why cyclists go on the inside of a vehicle that has clearly indicated. It creates chaos at the lights and shows a complete lack of common sense. I can't see any fun in being close to the curb having a moving car/van/lorry brush against me.

I see that kind of sado-masochism all the time. What is so great about being on the inside of large motor vehicles approaching left hand turns? Is there some kind of amazing rave-up super mega awesome party going on in there that I'm missing out on? I guess all the fluoro has to count for something, right?

At least once week a cyclist askes me politely " s'cuse me can I just budge past please " as I'm hanging back behind some coach/van/vehicle because there is about 12 inches of road space between the vehicle and the railed curb* and when that traffic starts moveing ...

• I'm thinking Tower Bridge Road
  

Gonna get me a whistle and a can of medic for those tight road space parties

As a commuter for some time through some awful city traffic in an area that is currently no1 for car accidents in the UK (never hit) my road rules as follows:

Assume the car driver has not seen you at all times

If you approach a line of traffic at lights make it REALLY obvious you are there. I always have flashing lights on regardless of sun, rain, snow what ever. They are not for me to see, but to be seen. A couple of powerful white ones with a regular pulse resemble a Police car behind (in winter they flash off road signs) and you are instantly noticed.

When you approach the car at the front of the line, check the lights in the opposite direction, are they about to change???

If so, wait in front of the 2nd car and point you flashing lights into the wing mirror of the 1st car. They both now know you are there.

If not pull in front of the 1st car by at least a bike length and look at the drivers face (normally they are looking right at the lights preparing to turn left – if you are lucky they indicate) – and give the bell a ting. (IF the lights have just hit red I will often approach on the RH side of the car and pull across the front of him so he has to see me) – this will annoy the driver – but better that than running you down.
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]In open traffic don’t hug the kerb, get yer bum 1/3 into the road. If you leave a gap that a car might just squeeze through, they will try and clip you. If you hog a narrow city road for a little while and force them to hold back it’s safer for you, when the road widens you can then edge across and let them through. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Rule of thumb with trucks is keep away, always stay behind them. They can hit you and never even know.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]My thoughts are it’s my life in danger so I put myself in control of the road.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT]
Assume the car driver has not seen you at all times
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT]

• I'm thinking Tower Bridge Road
  
  

Where you need to be overtaking on the outside.

I need to read this thread properly after the banana malt loaf gets down a bit.

Tiswas - explain, please.

Rule of thumb with trucks is keep away, always stay behind them. They can hit you and never even know.

+1

a couple of seconds saved vs getting squashed is a no brainer

Your post is an emotional appeal. I'm unclear as to its relevance and context.

I used logical holes as a metaphor, much as you used soapbox. If you stand on a soapbox full of holes, you fall through it.

If you are unclear as to its relevance and context then how can you detect emotion and holes in the logic. This thread is questioning whether it is cyclists that need educating. My point was in response to that. Road users can be as righteous as they like but you have a lot more to lose on two wheels or on foot than cocooned in metal.

I thought I was over feeling the need to get stuck into an internet debate, but apparently not.

'Tisn't! Was.

Poster campaign to cut cyclist deaths

A new campaign to alert cyclists to the danger from lorries has been launched.
Hundreds of posters will warn them not to undertake at junctions in the scheme by the Mayor and Transport for London.
TfL will also introduce new training for lorry drivers, with tips on improving cyclists' safety. Almost half of all cycle deaths in the capital involve lorries.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23891412-poster-campaign-to-cut-cyclist-deaths.do

City of London Police: Road Safety Forum.

Turning to the issues of lorries, Inspector Aspinall told the meeting about a day of City of London spot checks on HGVs, carried out on 30 September 2008 as part of the Europe-wide Operation Mermaid, which is intended to step up levels of enforcement of road safety laws in relation to lorries. On this one day, 12 lorries were stopped randomly by City Police. Five of those lorries were involved in the construction work for the 2012 Olympics. All of the twelve lorries were breaking the law in at least one way.

Repeat: a 100 per cent criminality rate among small random sample of HGVs on the streets of central London.

Anyone who cycles in London sees lorry drivers on mobiles, reading paperwork, jumping red lights and overtaking dangerously. Skip and flat bed scaffolding lorries are the worst in my experience, often driven by homicidal thugs. It's all well and good targetting cyclists, but it's the lorry drivers who need policing.

Anyone who cycles in London sees lorry drivers on mobiles, reading paperwork, jumping red lights and overtaking dangerously. Skip and flat bed scaffolding lorries are the worst in my experience, often driven by homicidal thugs. It's all well and good targetting cyclists, but it's the lorry drivers who need policing.

A poster campaign to warn cyclists not to perform dangerous manouvres isn't the same as policing them - you seem to be suggesting that you believe these posters are criminalising cyclists in some way?

Is undertaking by cyclists a significant factor in RTCs? I read somewhere the majority of deaths involved being run into from behind. The HGV industry also resisted the compulsory fitting of mirrors to eliminate blind spots. Don't get me wrong, a cyclist who undertakes a lorry near a junction is suicidal, but a lorry driver who trundles through London in an HGV whilst chatting on a mobile is homicidal.

Flourescent yellow dude overtook me this morning heading north past the busstop onto Battersea Bridge, charging up the left side of a double decker bus as it moved toward the blatantly obvious pinch point. Inevitably as he got forced to the left he put a foot down onto the curb since he could no longer remain upright and cycling. Did he stop at this point and have a good hard think about evolution and how it relates to his recent life choices? No. He kept pacing along with one foot on the curb trying to keep up with the bus while his cycle space narrowed to about 1 ft wide with railings on one side and big red on the other. He had loads of commuter gear so presumably does it every day. What goes through his head?