jetski's toolbox - today: the most simple DIY wheel anti-theft nut

Magnus, all the above may put you off thinking laterally around common problems. Don't let it yet, but bear in mind some of the realities of life that make a sound idea far from ideal.

The material science isn't there yet to cope with the concept (even if you're using a double nut arrangement) because the stuff these parts are made of is too weak. You have to go a long way up the bling scale before axles and nuts could stand the removal of material & retain sufficient strength. I'm thinking Royce quality not old Campag stuff, and even Cliff there would frown on the idea from a structural point of view. He doesn't even approve of radial lacing because he knows that metal 'moves' when you give it some welly.

The main practical issue that the idea cannot cope with is the famous london's weather and road shit, as summed up by S Walrus. The pin would seize in it's hole very quickly and refuse to come out. A magnetic steel pin would help, but gravity is too fickle a bastard too rely on here. To remove your wheel after a month or two, angle grinding would be required, and very careful angle grinding at that. Then you need new axles etc. (Unobtainium @ irisque) Just to fix a puncture. It makes a set of Pitlocks look cheap.

Keep corrosion at bay by using grease? The pin wouldn't fall out when you up-ended your bike. Coat it in candle wax, like the Greeks who built the Acropolis coated the famous steel pins? (Yeah, they used lead) Spoke prep? You'd need to carry a plumbers torch to heat the thing up enough to free the pin.

Keep thinking, but don't drill your axles to test this. Concept and practicality are too far apart.

more intimidating erudtion on the subject of bikes - clearly an asshole

the jokes getting old now...asshole.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM
Does it?!

D- for O-level metalwork at best. PMSL
grow up, or shut up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vélo libre
i imagine that if your axles are long enough, use a regular track nut for tightening, then one of these at the end. would be under no load so wouldn't affect axle weakness and the problem of alignment is eliminated. if i didn't have allen key ends i'd try it.[quote]

Personaly I don't think it would work either, if it is loose enough to come out with gravity when you turn the bike up then surely it will bounce out over bumpy roads?

Corrosion sticking it in would be a problem, a better idea if that is what you want to try is drill the nut, tap a small thread and use a small allen key grub screw to tighten up on the axle.

To be honest anyone that really wanted to could strip the thread or break an axle with a decent sized spanner or socket set so Pitlocks or similar that need a completely different shaped tool to remove are the way.

All this only deters the have a go thief, someone who wants your bike will get it, you only need to look at car theft to see how thieves progress, immobilisers are so good that thieves now break in to the house and steal the keys or resort to car jacking.

You have to go a long way up the bling scale before axles and nuts could stand the removal of material & retain sufficient strength.

Hey 36x18, I appreciate your judicious and nice response. Thanks again for the great wheelbuild btw, I guess you really have my wheels in front of you on your mind, right? ;-)
Don't you think it all stands and falls with the diameters you drill? If you drill just a 2mm hole and it's through a doubled-up nut and not through the first, do you actually still think it would be too weak?

(weather)

Keep corrosion at bay by using grease? The pin wouldn't fall out when you up-ended your bike. Coat it in candle wax, like the Greeks who built the Acropolis coated the famous steel pins? (Yeah, they used lead) Spoke prep? You'd need to carry a plumbers torch to heat the thing up enough to free the pin.

Yes that's what I thought - sticky grease or wax or something similar that will become liquid when you heat it with a normal lighter. The pin itself stainless, and smaller diameter than hole. Do you really think it would still be stuck in there then?

To be honest anyone that really wanted to could strip the thread or break an axle with a decent sized spanner or socket set so Pitlocks or similar that need a completely different shaped tool to remove are the way.

A long enough lever will brake anything. But then it's broken, which wouldn't be the discerning thief's choice.

BTW, in terms of Pitlocks, there is a tool on the market for quite a time now. It uses a circular honeycomb-arrangement of tiny movable pins at the tip, which opens them all.

^ ah, does the Gator Grip work? Used to have one in our house when I was young:

The material science isn't there yet to cope with the concept (even if you're using a double nut arrangement) because the stuff these parts are made of is too weak. You have to go a long way up the bling scale before axles and nuts could stand the removal of material & retain sufficient strength. I'm thinking Royce quality not old Campag stuff, and even Cliff there would frown on the idea from a structural point of view. He doesn't even approve of radial lacing because he knows that metal 'moves' when you give it some welly.

I doubt drilling the nuts and axles, and then replacing with a pin would cause any undue weakness. This is a bicycle designed to take one persons weight. the drilling would be outside of the drop-outs, where the force is applied, the nuts aren't that big entirely for strength, more because its a handy size to get a spanner round.
Magnus, my idea about the grub screw was to fit it from underneath, so a would be theif would not see it.

I think the difficulty and accuracy of drilling required, possible stretching of the axle when tightening throwing out alligning, and general fuss of upkeep are the problems with this, rather than weakness of material.

^ ah, does the Gator Grip work? Used to have one in our house when I was young:

They're shit on anything tighter than 'loosely done up with a spanner'. And they tend not to work at all on small things.

My foot on the other end of a 8" long ring spanner would definitely do one of the following:

1. Shear the 'pin'
   
2. Split the nut.
   
   

nothing wrong with holes in axles. Motorcycles use that with castelated nuts and split pins but only to stop nuts loosening under vibration.

The point is, if you ever want to remove the wheel, you need to turn your bike upside down - impossible when properly locked. Gravity is your anti theft protection.

jetski

Fail at this point.

The majority of Sheffield stands and other bike stands will allow for a properly locked bike to be turned upside down. This would only work when you lock up to certain types of railings or use D locks on posts (and not even always then).

Additionally if a tap on the nut when the bike is upside down is supposed to be sufficient to free the screw then a hearty whack in the upright position would also be sufficient to knock it out.

The majority of Sheffield stands and other bike stands will allow for a properly locked bike to be turned upside down.

How, if there are 2 d-locks through wheels and frame? i.e. "properly locked"

then there is no need for this solution.

How about drilling the track nuts and then using tiny little padlocks on each one?...

...

^ useless with out pics ;)

The original idea for security is interesting. It reminded me of the **Zefal Lock-n-Roll **solution, which required re-orienting the bike from horizontal to vertical for the locking pins to release. Not the same, but the comparison can be made. I can't ever pretend to be an engineer, but for anyone to think that in removing mass from an object, that its strength is unaffected, is not being honest with themselves. Of course, how much mass is removed, and where it is removed from, will ultimately affect total rigidity.

Since track cyclists can snap cranks, could not the forces generated by very strong cyclists, or very heavy people, not cause enough stress to eventually cause failure? I think its an idea that should be explored not just from a conceptual view, but with mechanical testing. OP, why not work with a company to develop it? Drilling a hole won't cost much; its the testing that will.

I am sceptical of its safety, but as an original idea, its not a bad one. I'm heavy, so I would never use it though.

then there is no need for this solution.

Haha, can't believe I missed that :)

I would be worried about cracking and failure of the nut.

But also, the wheel will look unlocked, so somebody may/will have a good old go trying to remove it before realised they can't, probably damaging it.

You need the lock visible so nobody tries to steal your wheels.

Yeah... maybe it's not a good idea to discourage using 2 locks anyway?

i have a shit wheel you can try this on if you want.

But also, the wheel will look unlocked, so somebody may/will have a good old go trying to remove it before realised they can't, probably damaging it.

This is the main problem as I see it. Somebody will try and open it with all they got, thinking it's just sitting really tightly. Either the 2mm pin shears and you lose the wheel, or the pin is bent or deformed enough so that you won't be able to take the wheel off without cutting the nut.

then there is no need for this solution.

But what if someone wants to steal your track nuts!?!?...