Help me with my first *and* ridiculous build

Hey folks,

I currently ride a geared Condor and want two things from my second ride: firstly to try out this whole "fixed gear" craze that I hear the kids go crazy for these days...

The second is disc brakes. The dual pivots on my Condor are so appalling in the far from infrequent rain that it really annoys me. I don't think any future bike I make should have to have rim brakes again.

So, I've done a fair amount of research and my favourite option so far, by far, is the Cotic Roadrat frame. My main worry is that a Large is 54cm seat tube, and even though it has semi-MTB geometry, I'm going to be at the limit of a 350mm seatpost on that. I'm 6'4", btw.

It's a lot like the Surly Karate Monkey frame (a 29er with horizontal dropouts) (which gets eliminated mostly due to the horrible name) - i.e. it has horizontal dropouts (132.5 spaced for road or MTB hubs (but not track...)), disc and canti mounts and comes in a 'short' style for use with drops.

Also, because I do quite like gears, I may want the option to go to a 1x9 setup later, hence I'm thinking of buying a normal 130mm casette hub and using the Surly Fixxer kit to convert it to fixed.

So, I'm thinking something like:

• Roadrat Frame & Fork (Large/Short)
  
• Avid BB7R disc brake on the front
  
• Bullhorn bars with an end mounted TT brake lever for the disc (I much prefer this look/style to the finger brake on the tops)
  
• Alex R450 wheelset with IS disc mounts (Cotic supply these on OTP RoadRat builds, so it's the easiest option, though I could be persuaded otherwise)
  
• Surly Fixxer (need more research to make sure it plays nice with the Alex 450s)
  
• Headset/seatpost/stem: unknown, probably the cheaper end of the scale to avoid this being hilariously expensive. Still have to decide on silver vs. black too...
  
• Chainset: unknown. A track set won't work so need to convert a double with spacers (and take off a ring) or use something like the Shimano Alfine... though I think it's ugly and am not sure if I should worry about 170 vs 165mm cranks on a build like this? I am looking forward to having the robustness of a Hollowtech II type BB though :)
  
  
  

Obviously, instead of all this I could buy a cheap OTP like a Charge Plug or an even cheaper beater fixed... but I kinda want to learn the build side of things too, and I'm fairly handy with a spanner... usually :)

So...
1.) am I insane? This'll probably cost like £800+
2.) Is there anything above that definitely won't work?
3.) any other options / insights / things to consider?

In terms of looks, I'm thinking black frame/fork, silver headset/stem/bars/seatclamp and maybe seatpost, brown/leather type saddle/bar tape. So it'll be a weird bullhorned disc braked, pseudo MTB geo'd fixed gear with classic understated looks... !

Flame on!

Make it freewheel and it will probably be a decent bike.

If you want to try the whole "fixed wheel thing" I suggest you try it on a simple no frills bike. Thats the reason why people like it. Simplicity and economy.

If you are 6'4" you will be happier with larger cranks. Perhaps even 175mm.

id buy a plug and learn to fix it when you break it, loads cheaper, i did it n love mine, apart from the slow puncture in the back, rutland had them up for 300 tho not sure if any left

or get something with a bigger frame or put some jump style forks with disc mount on the condor and stick a disc hub up front

My Condor would definitely not appreciate being adulterated like that :)
I still want to keep a geared roadie for longer trips...

I was joking about the whole kids/fixed gear thing, you know that right?
(But yes, not about trying one out...)

I guess if I could get a not unattractive fixed in a decent size for under £300 I could/should do that first.

Once you're pushing 400 though I might as well build the Frankenstein bike I've always wanted!

Disc braked, single speed, 700x25 specced Roadrats are a staple build for that frame, the only weirdness would be making it fixed, so I don't think it's SO outlandish. Though one disc and bullhorns might be...
I really really like the look of the roadrat frame too. I know it's not the same aesthetic that many on here like, but it's personal taste, anyway :)

Am interested in all opinions though, though I would also like technical advice to tell me the above makes some kind of sense.

Been googling more and am thinking maybe I should go with an external BB track chainset like the Truvativ Omniums?
Or maybe these, for half the price: http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/CSOOTC/on-one-external-bearing-track-crankset

ever seen these? this might help you go fixed for cheaper & less disassembling, i mention as you'll be buying a disc wheelset

ever seen these? this might help you go fixed for cheaper & less disassembling, i mention as you'll be buying a disc wheelset

Great tip.
A little ugly, but much much cheaper than the Fixxer option...

Cheers for the heads up :)

Incidentally, I'm not set on the disc wheelset at all.
Could get a disc front wheel and a rear with a bona fide 130mm fixed/free hub. It just means I'd need a second rear wheel if I ever want to convert to geared.

Sounds to me like you ideally need 2 bikes, one geared with discs and one fixed.

Sounds to me like you ideally need 2 bikes, one geared with discs and one fixed.

You're probably right.

I'd love the roadrat as a 1x9 disc braked urban thing that I could throw around, and ANOTHER as a fixed beater.

But then I'd have three bikes and my flat mate (who, umm, owns the flat) would definitely kill me :)

theyre cheap enough http://www.evanscycles.com/products/fuji/classic-track-2011-single-speed-road-bike-ec024679, depends on how arsed you are about brakes tbh, the ones on mine are fine and for extra quick stopping i fight the pedals too and im 6ft 2 n 20 stone

cheapest one i could see new http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/product/21235/Charge_Plug_Freestyler_Bike_2009

You're probably right.

I'd love the roadrat as a 1x9 disc braked urban thing that I could throw around, and ANOTHER as a fixed beater.

But then I'd have three bikes and my flat mate (who, umm, owns the flat) would definitely kill me :)

Sell the Condor when you get the new bikes. Alternatively you could just get a disc mount welded onto the Condors forks and buy a fixed wheel bike. Or convert the Condor to fixed an get a new geared bike with discs. Either way you'll have 2 bikes instead of 3. (Still more than 1 though..)

Are the brakes the only thing that bothers you about the Condor? Have you tried new brake blocks? Different calipers and levers? These things can really affect braking efficiency, might be worth trying to figure out why they have so little stopping power.

I have a roadrat which I run fixed using a surly 135mm (mtb spacing) flip flop hub. I've used it variously as a fixed gear with drops and mini vees, a mudguard/rack commuter with flat bars and normal v brakes, a fully geared and loaded touring bike with wider tyres...I also rode it through the last Canadian winter with studded tyres. The high BB is certainly an advantage for fixed. So my point is, you'd find some use for it!

I will say, though, that my current V brake setup is really powerful, even in the wet. I will convert to discs basically to avoid rim wear and icing for this winter.

You can solve the seatpost problem with a 400mm, commonly available in the 27.2mm size. I would go for a disc front wheel with the BB7 road as you mention. Not sure how great that TT lever will be with the disc brake but theoretically they are compatible.

If regularly swapping between fixed, single speed and geared, the worst thing for me is the rear brake. Obviously a rear disc is out due to the flip flop, so you'd need an appropriate rear rim brake (like a mini V or cantilever if using road levers). Disc on the rear might be overkill, in any case.

I guess a disc hub with surly fixxer might be cheaper than having two wheels if you think you will convert eventually. Not sure how the chain line works out...do you have to respace or redish?

Oh, and I went for mostly black components which I think works ok.

oh but do try kool stop pads or similar on the condor as mentioned above, dual pivots shouldn't be that bad in the rain....

I guess a disc hub with surly fixxer might be cheaper than having two wheels if you think you will convert eventually. Not sure how the chain line works out...do you have to respace or redish?

Thanks for all that :)

I don't think I'd have to re-space or re-dish. The Fixxer effectively goes over the cassette splines and replaces whichever cog position is appropriate to keep a straight chainline with your chainset...

And the rear-brake thing is the reason I'm tempted with the Fixxer route rather than just getting a 130 or 135mm 'real' fixed hub. I can use a normal cassette-taking, disc mount compatible rear wheel and then if I want to go geared, I can just take off the Fixxer, put on a cassette and disc and mount a rear caliper.

The fact I'm planning bullhorns and would have to swap to drops or get a combined bar end shifter/brake is neither here nor there... (!!). Ahem.

In response to others:
Thanks for the links to cheap fixeds, will take a look :)

And I can't easily mount discs on the Condor - it has a HUGE headtube which makes replacing the fork awkward (like 230mm or so) and it currently has carbon forks, so no braze on possibilities...

I think my brakes are well adjusted and I'm using Ultegra pads I think. Though maybe they do just suck in the wet?

ever seen these? this might help you go fixed for cheaper & less disassembling, i mention as you'll be buying a disc wheelset

This is the best advice on this thread. So, so easy to convert. And not uggly at all.

You can have brakes in hubs. Then you don't need a disc-compatible frame.

I would build a three wheel set. A roller hub front. A fixed rear. A hub gear with roller brake rear.

Then you can have all this on one bike, and no need for rim braks.

It'll cost a bit though. But you could use your existing frame as you don't need disc mounts.

On One Pompetamine is what you need - disc compatible, 135mm rear spaced, can be built up geared or SS, or fixed

http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/FROOPOMPET/on-one-pompetamine-frame

http://www.on-one.co.uk/news/products/q/date/2010/05/18/pompetamine-alfine-commuter-cross-bike-build

This is the best advice on this thread. So, so easy to convert. And not ugly at all.

I agree - that looks pretty ok :)

So do you just have the cassette splines the other side?

I can't imagine that wouldn't screw the chainline completely on a frame designed for geared operation?

On the Pompetamine - yes, totally aware of it. I believe On One brought it out as an answer to the Roadrat.

The advantages are it comes in a larger size and is cheaper (57cm - though with the geo differences, it's difficult to tell how much better that is than a 54cm RR - even the short RR has a longer Top Tube than the 57cm On-One)... the disadvantages are that it only comes in... ugly :)

But you can take it down to Armortex in Hackney and have it powdercoated any colour you wnat for 60 quid

On One Pompetamine is what you need - disc compatible, 135mm rear spaced, can be built up geared or SS, or fixed

+1 - The first thing I thought when I read the OP.

Can't you put a bolt-on cog on the disc side of a singlespeed disc hub to make it fixed? If so then that would give you fixed plus a ss disc if you don't like fixed.

Then if you wanted gears, you could just build a back wheel with a Shimano Alfine disc hub.

^ all this assumes you actually want to build a new bike and your using the braking issue as justification ; )

The *really *sensible option would be buying (or re-building) a new wheelset with ceramic open pro's + suitable brake pads. Then check your brake setup, probably replacing your old cables with DA ones. Maybe a calliper upgrade, depending what you're running now.

The Alfine version is all kind of awesome, especially with those shifter that's designed for internal hubs;

In an effort to head off my expensive ambition I tried a Charge Plug today (I think the all grey one actually looks super nice) and the Spesh Langster steel (the red+silver one), which despite the general Langster hate looks pretty nice I think.

Both can be got in Evans for £399 at the moment (the former via price match, I already have the voucher from them so...).

The problem seems to be the sizing, so a more general question: for those folks that frequently change bikes / have multiple bikes: how different do they feel and how much of a differing comfort level should I expect?

The large Plug is 62.2 STL, 56.6 TTL, the Langster is something like 60/60 and my current roadie is 61/58 and they all felt completely different... but there are so many factors I couldn't really tell why they were different. I would've thought the extra uprightness of the Plug would make it more comfortable than my roadie, but in fact I felt like all the weight was on my hands. The Langster felt better but the track bars are so lame it was hard to feel past that.

My hunch is that it was actually all down to the relative saddle/pedal position rather than anything else. My roadie has a layback seatpost and I have the saddle almost as far back as it will go as well. The further back the saddle is, the less weight is on your hands (and the easier it is to ride no handed, IMO, too), so maybe I'd just need to move the Charge saddle back and it'd be fine?

Equally, the whole Roadrat thing, how can I tell how comfortable it'll be without being able to test ride the setup I'm going for?

Ultimately then, my question is- for you guys who frequently build your own bikes: do you just get to know a half decent geometry for your proportions and then tweak the seatpost/spacers/stem to get comfy ride?

...or can you make any geometry comfortable with the right other bits?

Excuse the ramble :)

i think its normally a case of knowing a geometry that suits you and that tweaking that with seatpost lenght, saddle placement, stem length/rise or -rise and then spacers.
maybe you should go for a bike fit?

so maybe I'd just need to move the Charge saddle back and it'd be fine?

yep, pretty much it as your weight should be something like 50/50.

and superjoe mentioned bike fitting, you can get it done on the cheap from the Bike Whisperer, which the forum has nothing but good thing to says about them (scratch that, excellent thing to says).

Really? Isn't it more 60/40 or even 70/30 favouring the seat?

Had a fitting at Condor for my Condor so I'm pretty sure that's pretty close to 'right' :)

I wish I had one of those adjustable Bike Horse things at home. That'd be really convenient when looking up geoms online...

I shall look up The Bike Whisperer, thank you...