12 penalty points ≠ ban

What is going on? 1 in 4 people that hit 12 points on their driving license DO NOT receive bans because they convince the courts that loosing their jobs will bring undue 'hardship'.
When will authorities understand and enforce the fact the driving is a privilege and NOT a right? How can it be that someone could get done for speeding/driving on mobile phone several times as a "professional" driver but then say if I loose my job I'm screwed please let me continue driving?

Or have I got this wrong?

Nope, happens quite a bit- our IT manager was nicked for doing around 150 mph, lost his licence for a month.

If true that sends out all the wrong signals.

The people who drive as a necessary part of their employment should be the safest drivers of all, they shouldn't get a free pass where anyone else would be excluded from operating a motor vehicle.

Holy shit! I didn't even know it was possible to wiggle out of a ban. If this is true the people who drive the most have less incentive than I thought to try to drive sanely.

Addison Lee drivers should all have an explosive collar around their necks activated by anything greater than 0.4G acceleration, sod points.

Ahah! this partly explains why so many appalling drivers are still on the road.

I herd of this before but did not realise it was 1 in 4. It's a sad fact, it completely defies logic.

I've worked as a "professional driver" before, in so far as driving was a large part of my daily job.

Some of the other drivers had a variety of licences which they would use, discarding any which had been banned at that time.

Hardship....Hmmmmmm

One the one hand you stop all these people from driving (hence loosing their jobs) they could become a burden to society. But on average a death costs around a million pounds (I can not substantiate this, just what I heard). Last time I checked you don't don't get anywhere near that on the dole.

Why can't the firms that employ them also get it up 'em? After all the only way to get through to these people is (drum roll)......

You guessed it! IN THE POCKET.

I would imagine the insurance premium with 12 penalty points would be pretty horrific for the 3 years or more that they remain on the licence. Not excusing it in any way, but that would be financially punishing for most people.

I've worked as a "professional driver" before, in so far as driving was a large part of my daily job.

Some of the other drivers had a variety of licences which they would use, discarding any which had been banned at that time.

What do you mean? Like false passports in false names or foreign ones?

They'd buy drivers licences off people in the pub for £20, use it, get flashed- submit those details.

Bear in mind that the people they bought the licences off could not afford to purchase, tax and insure a car and buy their daily booze and/or pharma intake.

Why weren't all phones made illegal to use by drivers within cars?
Because a fuckload of voters drive.

Why don't these fucks lose their licenses? Because the same majority of drivers are running the show and wouldn't want to upset anyone.

Why weren't all phones made illegal to use by drivers within cars?
Because a fuckload of voters drive.

Why don't these fucks lose their licenses? Because the same majority of drivers are running the show and wouldn't want to upset anyone.

+1

And its not set to change anytime soon.

Why weren't all phones made illegal to use by drivers within cars?
Because a fuckload of voters drive.

Why don't these fucks lose their licenses? Because the same majority of drivers are running the show and wouldn't want to upset anyone.

Listened to an interesting bit on the radio about drink driving and when the law was proposed to make that illegal. Not very popular and the government were apparently scared it would be a vote looser.

Speaking of points, has anyone ever been given any by a sneaky copper for jumping lights etc?

Would be tempted to use the "I'm spartacus" defence, but not sure whether they could just force you to empty your bag.

It is nonsensical, my auntie got around a ban on the same excuse. She owned a clothes shop so no idea how the lawyer managed to wrangle that.

Would be tempted to use the "I'm spartacus" defence, but not sure whether they could just force you to empty your bag.

What's the spartacus defence?
Trying to be Fabian Cancellara was what got me stopped in the first place..

I thought they couldn't give points for RLJ on a bike.

I was stopped once for RLJ but played the American tourist over here on holiday. I don't think he really bought it but my all ID is from the States so I suspect he let me off rather than trying to sort it out. Worked for me.

I thought they couldn't give points for RLJ on a bike.

I was stopped once for RLJ but played the American tourist over here on holiday. I don't think he really bought it but my all ID is from the States so I suspect he let me off rather than trying to sort it out. Worked for me.

As you don't require a license to drive a bike, you can't get points. No RTA offence you commit on a bike will have any effect on your car license.

friend of a friend was stopped for RLJing. She was told either she had three choices: either she goes on a safety course for cyclist (ie climb into a lorry cab) or she takes a £30 fine AND 3 points on her license or she goes with him to the station.

Whether or not she could be given points on her license it was definitely used as a threat.

What's the spartacus defence?
Trying to be Fabian Cancellara was what got me stopped in the first place..

:D

I'm talking about more of a Kirk Douglas kind of way than the euro-big-ring-pro kind of way http://www.lagazzettadellabici.com/2010/08/2002-japan-cup-fabian-cancellara-frank.html

Speaking of points, has anyone ever been given any by a sneaky copper for jumping lights etc?

Would be tempted to use the "I'm spartacus" defence, but not sure whether they could just force you to empty your bag.

I'm pretty sure you are required by law to give your name and address. You don't have to enter into any other conversation if you don't want to, but the name and address must be given.

I think these days they can use the stop and search legislation to search you without permission as well so it's best to be polite and suck it up. Being very respectful and polite has got me out of a lot of misdemeaners before, but then I'm white and look like a normal citizen so that probably has something to do with it.

Remember most coppers crave respect - if you give it to them they are normally quite reasonable.

The test isn't "hardship" but "exceptional hardship".

I was a Senior Crown Prosecutor, and dealt with these applications a fair amount.

Losing your job (and thus your home) isn't (supposed to be) enough. Hardship must above and beyond the usual consequences (in theory). The usual consequences of a ban, for professional drivers, include unemployment, and perhaps homelessness.

It's often argued that the hardship will be for other people. You'd be amazed how many taxi drivers had sick aunts they drive to hospital every week.

The one I will never forget was an NHS bigwig caught on a speed camera, totting up, looking at a 12 month ban. She produced an indexed bundle of documents from the NHS supposedly demonstrating how important she was (she used the word organigram several times). The lay bench were lapping up this perfectly respectable, credible, white, middle class woman, who they had clearly pegged as "one of their own".

She had thoughtfully provided a map of where she lived, displaying the area she had to cover whilst on call (for big incidents, etc.). Her 'exceptional hardship' argument was that the people of London would suffer exceptional hardship because she wouldn't be able to go out to incidents. She started giving evidence at 3pm on a Friday, and I stood up to start cross-examination at 4.45pm, having missed my train.

I was not in a good mood, and I gave her a very hard time. I cross-examined her for about an hour on the public transport links on her map (fucking London, not the middle of rural Wales), taxis for out of hours calls, bicycles (gesturing at the 20kg of files I had in panniers on the bench at the back of court), a driver from work, job sharing with someone capable of keeping their licence, etc etc.

I ended up going a bit OTT, pointing out that if she was replaced, the only person suffering hardship would be her, and that was simply a consequence of her deciding to put her own convenience ahead of other road users' safety.

She was so arrogant and had the attitude that it was merely a formality and she couldn't *possibly *be banned, she just had to explain and be on her way. She'd driven to court, FFS, and admitted as much when asked. I was determined that she realise how serious it was.

When I had finished, I sat down and the bench went out, she ran out of the court, and five seconds later a clerk came in to tell me she was crying, and what had been going on.

Of course, they didn't ban her, and she kept her licence, an inveterate, recidivist speeder apparently uncapable of modifying her behaviour or obeying speed limits.

I like to think she told her friends how hard it was.

word ^ nice post.

"Of course, they didn't ban her, and she kept her licence, an inveterate, recidivist speeder apparently uncapable of modifying her behaviour or obeying speed limits."
this fits the description of several people I know, becomes like a bravado thing, sad really.