Caramel cycles - £200 track bikes

He is selling things that are bound to fail...? second hand brake cables? has the man no fucking scruples? they cost 99p in wilkos? he has an account at fishers and is putting on second hand brake cables...? even Unicrates have new (but crappy) brake cables?
for that alone he needs a fucking good kick in the balls?

Ed (i think) is also self employed...? what does any of this have to do with whether or not 'Mr Caramel' builds shit bikes?

You backing the small guy in this case is so fucking deluded because in this case...the poor cunt that bought his shit heap bicycle is the small guy?

can you hear your self now?

Wingedangel, you certainly are an interesting person. Maybe an acquired taste, but truly interesting.

1. I have not supported any company in their selling of shoddy or dangerous equipment. I never have, and I naver will. Please read the sentence again, as it is carefully worded. I know that your first reaction is of the blunderbuss type, but I have said, and reiterate, that I do NOT support shoddy and dangerous goods.

2. Edscoble is self-employed to a point. You will need to find out his financial situation by discussing it with him directly. I'll say this though, when I was in business, I didn't have anyone else standing by to bail me out, and I paid my VAT and taxes in full. It killed me. Like I said, I don't know Ed's case, so I can't agree or disagree. I do have thoughts, but they are private, and will not be aired.

3. I am not deluded. There are 2 different types of small guy in the case. A sole trader that has just started up a small company, and a single person looking to buy a bargain bike cheaply, and getting a poorly put together bike. I won't defend that. Thats what it was. But a company and an individual can both be the small guy, but only one can lose everything in reputation, and in finance. Say the individual has bought a bike for 400 quid, and its a lemon. He may lose the 400, or get his money back, or have the item put right. The small company on the other hand, through bad press (their own fault), because of poor products, could go under. And when that goes under, we're talking about a place to live.....everything.

As it is Caramel Cycles may and may not survive this onslaught. It was wrong to sell below standard items, especially if they didn't meet legal requirements. No-one will ever defend that. Not me. Not anybody. I have only taken the position, that anyone can fuck things up, even badly....and should still be allowed to straighten things out.

If prisoners can be rehabilitated, then surely its not as hard for a retailer.

Last point. If a company has a flawed or bad business model, and they are called out on it, how long would people expect it would take to make a new plan, and head in a new direction? 5 minutes? 10 seconds? 2 weeks? Well, I don't know about dancing_james, who appears to act as if such a thing could/should be done instantly. I only know James' field of work via a newpaper article that also showed his photo. Witht hat in mind, I can honestly say that I have never had such a protected job. Its well known that local and national government jobs, come with good pensions, and heavy union backing. The jobs are about the safest to have, and best to keep, just about anywhere. Its a different life to being a contractor, or self-employed, or having your own business. None of the government workers' job safety is to be had. Its dog eat dog, or rather Lfgss eat Caramel.

If Caramel don't survive, its because they deserve that. But if they do, its because they worked fucking hard to turn things around, and succeeded. Though I'm quite confident, that no matter if they become a sort of Condor Cycles in 10 years time, some will never forgive......and just keep on the thoughts in this thread. And thats just the way the world is.