You can get busted in Midtown

The point is still being missed on this thread, they have no powers of enforcement, they can use section 5 no more than I can. If they are offend by someone telling them to 'fuck off' then they need to call the police, like any other member of the public.

I know they have no enforcement power, but just by stopping you they create a situation of conflict or antagonism which can easily escalate and then be enforced by someone with actual powers. It is this that I was highlighting

im sure a simple 'no habla englais' will put any potential unpleasantness to bed.

I know they have no enforcement power, but just by stopping you they create a situation of conflict or antagonism which can easily escalate and then be enforced by someone with actual powers. It is this that I was highlighting

Fair enough, point taken. But what do you mean by "a situation of conflict or antagonism which can easily escalate and then be enforced by someone with actual powers" ?

Bottom line is that if another member of the public (because that is all they are) starts to try and order you around I don't think it is unreasonable that they should expect to be told to fuck off fairly regularly.

I don't get it, how do they do anything? Just ask you to dismount?

methinks they are relying on the appearance of officiousness (as much as an orange tie and a 'are you coming in here with those trainers on sirrah' attitude can muster) to reinforce the notion that they wield some sort of authority - it makes you wonder what fucking planet their paymasters are living on, what with this being london where people (rightly) pelted that self important faux magician twat who sat in a box on embankment with eggs for a month - one of the proudest moments for my adopted home town i might hasten to add.

Fair enough, point taken. But what do you mean by "a situation of conflict or antagonism which can easily escalate and then be enforced by someone with actual powers" ?

Bottom line is that if another member of the public (because that is all they are) starts to try and order you around I don't think it is unreasonable that they should expect to be told to fuck off fairly regularly.

I agree that all they are is a members of the public with no powers of arrest and detention. Doesn't stop them winding people up though.

And this is what gets me. the warden could try and fine someone for some trivial offence they believe they have seen committed. The best course of action is to ignore them and just go on your way. However, the warden may make it difficult for that to happen (e.g. stand in your way, make a bit of a scene and generally harass you) at that point with someone pissing you off it is natural to be annoyed. And this is the antagonism. Often people respond to this sort of thing with bad language, shouting and physical pushing and shoving. Whilst the warden has initiated this conflict by being irritating if there was a proper policeman around who then got involved it would be very likely that he would side with the warden and the person would not now only be facing a fine from the warden, but also perhaps arrest by a policeman for section 5 and maybe trumped up charges of assault.

So that is what I see by a situation of conflict and antagonism. And I know that it is unlikely that a proper policeman would be around but if fining is going on then it may be going on in partnership with the police who might be hanging around to see it all goes smoothly and to step in if it isn't.

hope that makes sense.

I agree that all they are is a members of the public with no powers of arrest and detention.

As a member of the public they can arrest you (as you can arrest them) - the point being that they have no more authority over you than you have over them.

And this is what gets me. the warden could try and fine someone for some trivial offence they believe they have seen committed. The best course of action is to ignore them and just go on your way. However, the warden may make it difficult for that to happen (e.g. stand in your way, make a bit of a scene and generally harass you) at that point with someone pissing you off it is natural to be annoyed. And this is the antagonism. Often people respond to this sort of thing with bad language, shouting and physical pushing and shoving. Whilst the warden has initiated this conflict by being irritating if there was a proper policeman around who then got involved it would be very likely that he would side with the warden and the person would not now only be facing a fine from the warden, but also perhaps arrest by a policeman for section 5 and maybe trumped up charges of assault.

Agreed, it's fairly guaranteed that the police will side with the warden/security guard/'ranger' . . . regardless of the situation. That's why it is best to get your 'fuck off you jumped up little prick' in fairly early and then get on with your day.

I bet they feel like heroes

Lets be honest, rough sleepers are pretty easy targets

*The Public Order Act 1986, Section 5 states:

(1) A person is guilty of an offence if he:* *

    (a) uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or* *
    (b) displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting,

within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress thereby.* *

This offence has the following statutory defences:* *

** (1) The defendant had no reason to believe that there was any person within hearing or sight who was likely to be alarmed or distressed by his action.*** *

    (2) The defendant was in a dwelling and had no reason to believe  that his behaviour would be seen or heard by any person outside any  dwelling.
    (3) The conduct was reasonable.

If there street was empty, and there was no chance of anyone being about then it cannot be S5. You can defend the charge on the basis that you had no reason to believe that there was any person within hearing or sight who was likely to be caused harassment alarm or distress. You would have to prove this on the balance of probabilities.* *

In the case of DPP v Orum 1988 it states that officers can be THAT PERSON but it depended on the facts. I think the point was that police officers are pretty robust and aren't easily harassed, alarmed or distressed. It all depends on the behaviour and the likely effect it would have on a robust police officer.*

I'm fucked. But then you could always encourage them to swear at you... then section 5 them :)

Coming from the melt who tows bikes, that's a bold statement

well what other way to move two bike at once?

well what other way to move two bike at once?

Move all other things in the opposite direction of travel.

Your viewpoints are almost as disgusting as your bikes.

Taking our freedoms for granted and making light of an example of the private sector getting involved in telling us what to do and what not to do is appalling. You truly should hang your head in shame.

I suspect you have completely missed the point of Ed's post.

LADS

Easyjet?

LADS

Where is this little hut?

Good question Tommy - I need to find it and smear it with my excrement.

easyJustice

Easyjet?

Oh dear

I was 'up' London's famous 'The West End' only a couple of hours ago and while standing outside The Blue Posts at the top of Berwick Street - drinking 'Booze™' - I saw a grown man much like the Power Cocks™ above, but uniformed in a red shirt, black tie, peak cap and black powerslacks - obviously he was from some other business militia as the colour combination was different - but he did the whole 'I'm watching you in case you step into the road and incur a FPN' thing as he stood literally staring at us from the other side of the road.

Anyone got any clue who these goons are ? The Selfridges police ? The Gap's power squad ?

Oh dear

EasyDear™

carry a pair of small binoculars and keep looking back at them. They would love that.

These are cheap and would do the job. http://direct.tesco.com/q/R.100-0673.aspx

Fuck it, I am going binoculars on these cunts.

Good question Tommy - I need to find it and smear it with my excrement.

Never use your own excrement, find a willing donor or some dog shit.

Where can you find out bye laws?

Never use your own excrement, find a willing donor or some dog shit.

Thanks for the tip, I've a steady supply of someone else's at the moment so will use that.

I was 'up' London's famous 'The West End' only a couple of hours ago and while standing outside The Blue Posts at the top of Berwick Street - drinking 'Booze™' - I saw a grown man much like the Power Cocks™ above, but uniformed in a red shirt, black tie, peak cap and black powerslacks - obviously he was from some other business militia as the colour combination was different - but he did the whole 'I'm watching you in case you step into the road and incur a FPN' thing as he stood literally staring at us from the other side of the road.

Anyone got any clue who these goons are ? The Selfridges police ? The Gap's power squad ?

Sounds like London Bus sightseeing tours reps, maybe he thought you were German and needed to spend £12 to sit in the drizzle for 45mins on top of a bus stuck in traffic.