Homeopathy

dang, dont you ever sleep?

we suffer what is known as an irrational primacy effect

woooo yes we (i) do.

I can't imagine trying to find out the better option out of two dietary choices would be that difficult, using the right tools you should be able to get a decent idea pretty easily and fairly quickly ?

well i was finding it pretty dam annoying. maybe im not so used to the right tools and methods to look.

Again, I would hope to squeeze out of you a better or clearer idea of what you mean by overmedication

this was the bit i didnt want to discuss. for me its like a catch all informal conversational thing not a scientific by numbers thing. in one scenerio it could mean one thig but another scenerio it could mean another. i really dont come at this from a scientific method perspective which mean you and i could go round in circles on this.

I could kill my big brother with a brazil nut

what are you a bond villain?

Also the idea that these deaths are unnecessary might not be as clear cut as that, I could argue (and this is only to make the point) that when taken on the level of the medical facility and not the individual they are entirely necessary

this is totally true. i was thinking more along the individual lines over the larger picture,on a totally subjective perhaps even anecdotal level...

But of course we wouldn't want to do that as medical intervention does vastly more good than harm. .... a good analogy would be a vaccine

yep. this i agree with.

a general consensus is about the best you will get in science.

and therein lies the base of my frustration as a layperson. if the best i can hope for is consensus (which appears to be unlikely) then we as the layfolk public are scuppered trying to find easy access to reliable info. which turns into my....

""fuck it. i cant be fucked woith the amount of shit on the internet"

I think you would find it less frustrating on your Google safari if you knew what you were looking for

actually i did know. it was pretty much this... "i have been led to believe that human beings are designed (lets not get started on this please - i think you know what i mean) for a diet of low fat, low protein, high carbohydrates from non animal sources" now it wasnt about what humans can live or survive on. more about diet for optimum health. diet to thrive on, ya dig? i've read articles championing both sides of the fence. then i read something more conclusive and wonder why the dam hell all the other stuff is there if this new bit is more accurate and better supported? so then i go down the route of investigating ketosis - a state induced by very low carb intake. from all ive read before, ketosis is a dangerous place to be, supporting the high carb low fat/protein side. but whats this? i come accross a site proclaiming the 'facts' about ketosis and how its totally safe (providing you arent diabetic) and in fact a very normal state for humans throughout a large portion of their history before they started relying on veg carbs. just look at the eskimo's yadda yadda. i got too pissed off to carry on. and as a vegan, part of me doesnt want to be given facts that a high animal protein, medium fat and low carb diet is the most natural and vitality giving diet for the human. but as a person who has suffered health problems for a large part of life i do want to know if i could be giving myself a better headstart in that one area. so im confused, the info is confusing, and all of that lead to this here discussion...

Without that definition 'overmedicated' becomes pretty much anything you want it to be, my gran having her medicines doubled is overmedication, my gran having her medicines halved is proof of overmedication, a man having a bad reaction to an anaesthetic in the dentists chair is overmedication, menopausal women being offered remedies is overmedication . . . and so on.

yes you are right.

Are you sure, they actually say not to change your diet or your lifestyle and just take the drugs ?

yep, scarey eh.

"in fact we encourage users not to change their diet or lifestyle in any way"

they "guarantee results". a "risk free trial" ( i can hear you asking, "please can you define risk free. exactly what risks are you guaranteeing this trial to be free from")?

Can you remember the name of the drug, the name of the company selling the drug, the manufacturer or anything like that ?

none of that info is given. its a 30 day free trial of a lisenced drug not available yet. tol free number is all. oh and its in the states. open itunes. click radio. click hiphop/rap and its clubradio's 90's hiphop staion. description says"all the 90's hiphop/rap channel" its only on after about 5 in the pm. 1700 for you army/national rail folk. listen for about 30 mins and you'll hear it. along with some great music*

*subjective

Can you give an example of an 'alternative' that is has a better safety profile, less side effects (and I am assuming comparable efficacy) to a commonly used drug - so I know the kind of thing you are talking about.

duh, homeopathy.

How are you using the word 'natural' in this context, and in what way is something being more 'natural' better ?

like, how much more natural, can water with 1 squillionth part of sunlight in get?

ok, more seriously. the context i was on about was weight loss, as per the commercial.

a more 'natural' and 'alternative' method or two would be to stop eating so much god dam rubbish food. and do some low impact excercise (to minimise injury rates of sedentary people - over sported? sport is killing people?). hows about that as an example? yes you take take a drug to lose weight. or you can be less lazy and put some effort in. ( i cant assume comparable efficacy, but my personal feling is that putting a little effort in and seeing the results of that effort are really really rewarding, and in the food/weight issue it gives you a more workable idea of how your diet and lifestyle actually affects your weight/happiness/sense of welbeing/health etc etc. so in this case, comparable efficacy is les important).

as an last ditch measure in life threatening circumstaces this drug may be a good idea, but i imagine there are a lot of people out there who would jump on this who arent in that state.

Excuse the ridiculous hypothetical example but . . . .

would you say that he has been overmedicated - let's say he was given half a paracetamol ?

no, not at all.

but in the equally ridiculous hypothetical example where someone goes to their GP and says......

"im realy worried about my weight. its too much, but im a little concerned as how to go about losing some, could you refer me to a nutritionalist or give me some guidance to gentle excercise to help kick start the revolution of my life so i can change and become healtier and happier? please doc?"

and the GP says

"nah forget about putting in effort, what you need is this new drug. you dont have to change anything in your lifestyle or eating habits. you just take this drug and you'll lose weight. much easier. and if you dont like swallowing pills then crushit up and put in your ice cream. easy"

i would argue that this could fall into the broad, as yet un-defined spectrum of being overmedicated in two ways. 1)the physical use of the drug. 2)the unquantifiable effect on the thought processes of the big guy from the poor attitude of the GP. the efect of the exposure to the medical proffesion, in this example, the GP being the face of it.

it seems like you want to eliminate the glut of trash talk and unsupported ideas from the world/forum overall. and thats good and not trying to stop that.

other people are only concerned in certain areas. like me trying to find info on diet up there ^^^^ and wanting clear supported answers. and on other subjects, simply being happy to have ideas bandying around and anecdotes and all that informal stuff. a shocking and readily admitted double standard on my part.

its interesting for me to notice that i've had personal experience of at least 7 of the things on your spoof periodic table. good experienes which i felt helped me at the time. this whole thread would have had a different affect on me back then, but now i can laugh it off and go ha, placebo, yea probably was just that. this is just an unrelated sidenote.