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And what about the people who ride without ever looking behind themselves?? I followed a woman (and this one does seem to be a women's thing) for about a mile this morning; she was signalling and weaving her way past the cars but never once looked behind her. I would have brought it to her attention. But I was behind her. So didn't exist.
Eye contact, ftw
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And what about the people who ride without ever looking behind themselves?? I followed a woman (and this one does seem to be a women's thing) for about a mile this morning; she was signalling and weaving her way past the cars but never once looked behind her. I would have brought it to her attention. But I was behind her. So didn't exist.
Eye contact, ftw
I stopped at a light once and a woman pottled past me as I was taking off she pulled straight in and nearly take me out because she didn't look over her shoulder, I alerted her to my presence and she shouted at me that I shouldn't be on the inside! DOH!
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I asked the same question (as the OP) in the cycle training thread a while back. It can be really difficult trying to mention this to other cyclists- especially female ones, as I do not want to come across as a patronizing bellend giving unsolicited advise, potentially giving more reason for them to give up on their bikes.
A few things that have happened:
(i)
Riding North bound over Tower Bridge and saw a woman that looked like someone I knew. After loads of squinting she went went one way, me the other. I shook my head at the resemblance to myself. She saw me shake my head and screamed at me "what my fucking problem was??!?"
I shouted how much she looked like someone I know. We laughed and she apologised as she sheepishly as she rode off.This is when I noticed the worst of a female's perspective. She was so mad with rage at the thought I might have been dissing her riding.
(ii)
I rode down Mile End Rd a few weeks ago and cyclist did something really daft down the side of a bus. When I raised the issue (she) pulled off her headphones with that WTF do you want vibe. Before I could finish my brief point she put them back on and continued riding.
It left me wishing I could hand her an image of the horror site where the cyclist had died on tower Bridge Rd/crucifix Lane to shock her with rather than have her look at me like like she stepped in something and practically blank me.(iii)
I do the cycle training for Serco, the folk behind the London cycle hire scheme and had a myth absolutely busted:
2 of 7 of the young men I trained were very very worried about riding on the road- something I'd have bet my moots would be more likely to be a female point of view.Originally Posted by JonoMarshall
"Get more girls cycling at a young age, often tween/teen girls seem to stop cycling until a later age where as many tween/teen boys will take the hobby further throughout adolescents, giving them more confidence and (sometimes) better bike handling skills."Good point. Despite all of the cycle training I do in schools there will be very few children taking it up: Biggest reason?
Mums and Dads ( and to a lesser degree, teachers) do not take cycle training seriously themselves and will be the biggest bar to kids riding, citing things like, 'it's too dangerous'.I'm looking to start some schemes that will focus specifically on the parents and teachers getting back on bikes and riding to school to show that it is not inherently dangerous.
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And what about the people who ride without ever looking behind themselves?? I followed a woman (and this one does seem to be a women's thing) for about a mile this morning; she was signalling and weaving her way past the cars but never once looked behind her. I would have brought it to her attention. But I was behind her. So didn't exist.
Eye contact, ftw
Disagree totally - I see both sexes do exactly this. I'd say blokes were more guilty (but that might be because proportionaly there are more on the road, for xample, I had a bloke signal and pull out on me (without looking) just as I was taking him over. Fortunately I'd allowed for this (thanks cycling training) and didn't hit the stupid arse. Wouldn't have been as lucky with a car.
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"2 of 7 of the young men I trained were very very worried about riding on the road- something I'd have bet my moots would be more likely to be a female point of view."
There is a natural link between this thread and the Cycle Training forum so I hope that people reading this will also have a look there. I had one rider, pretty 'advanced' and capable but he just would not contemplate making riding on busy roads a regular part of his commute. At the weekend I had a trainee who had come for training specifically because she wanted to shorten her commute by using busy roads; and she was great, by the end she had the confidence and knowledge to do that. He could not conquer his fear, she could.
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Disagree totally - I see both sexes do exactly this. I'd say blokes were more guilty (but that might be because proportionaly there are more on the road, for xample, I had a bloke signal and pull out on me (without looking) just as I was taking him over. Fortunately I'd allowed for this (thanks cycling training) and didn't hit the stupid arse. Wouldn't have been as lucky with a car.
And what about the people who ride without ever looking behind themselves?? I followed a woman (and this one does seem to be a women's thing) for about a mile this morning; she was signalling and weaving her way past the cars but never once looked behind her. I would have brought it to her attention. But I was behind her. So didn't exist.
Eye contact, ftw
I want to try to give another perspective to this. I'm recovering from an injury and am finding it extremely difficult to look round when on my bike. I will always listen to the traffic noise, and if I am still not sure I will stop before making any potentially dangerous moves.
Up until three weeks ago I was still unable to indicate left and right without toppling over. The only way to improve this is practice. (I almost toppled over with joy last week when I finally managed to indicate right - who-hoo!)
It might be dangerous for me to cycle like this but as I said, the only way for me to improve is practice. And when I cycle I am fully aware of my limitations.
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Shoosh, if you find it difficult to look round, it's easier if you let go of your right hand from the handlebar and look from your right shoulder, you'll find this hugely easier than looking back with both hand on the handlebar.
that if you hasn't already been doing that of course.
The other option is to temporary have a wing mirror on the right side of the handlebar, not as good as looking back, but still a lots better than listening for incoming vehicles.
Also remember that you may not hear cyclist approaching, especially cyclists on fixed wheel bicycles, electric motorcycles, etc.
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"2 of 7 of the young men I trained were very very worried about riding on the road- something I'd have bet my moots would be more likely to be a female point of view."
There is a natural link between this thread and the Cycle Training forum so I hope that people reading this will also have a look there. I had one rider, pretty 'advanced' and capable but he just would not contemplate making riding on busy roads a regular part of his commute. At the weekend I had a trainee who had come for training specifically because she wanted to shorten her commute by using busy roads; and she was great, by the end she had the confidence and knowledge to do that. He could not conquer his fear, she could.
Festus is absolutely right--men can be extremely worried about this, too. In my experience, women tend to be more worried about a lack of peer support than men. This is of course not meant to stereotype, hence the vague 'tend to'. We did a survey in London Fields a few years ago, and unfortunately I never got round to evaluating the forms properly, but the greatest worry about safety came from men. Having said that, the women who currently cycle are more self-selecting than men owing to the 'male-only' nimbus around cycling that's felt by many.
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nimhbus is gay?
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[QUOTE=jenny j;1507755]And what about the people who ride without ever looking behind themselves?? I followed a woman (and this one does seem to be a women's thing) for about a mile this morning; she was signalling and weaving her way past the cars but never once looked behind her. I would have brought it to her attention. But I was behind her. So didn't exist.
Eye contact, ftw
Disagree totally - I see both sexes do exactly this...[/QUOTE]+1 When I did my training that was the trainer's observation - I rode like hell and never looked back. I slowed right down for a month and started to look back a lot, but since then have been creeping back up to speed, drafting and dodging again. The thing is when you ride at speed in dense traffic you need to look forward all the time, because if you look behind even for a glimpse you can easily end up tasting the vehicle in front.
This is all going a bit off topic though, and to be honest I'm not sure it's possible to have a discussion on women's safety in traffic beyond sharing anecdotes. Aside from the vulgar biological differences, there is vastly more in common between the sexes than not, and while there may be a sex bias towards a particular behaviour, the bias is always going to be much much smaller than the range of that behaviour.
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Shoosh, if you find it difficult to look round, it's easier if you let go of your right hand from the handlebar and look from your right shoulder, you'll find this hugely easier than looking back with both hand on the handlebar.
that if you hasn't already been doing that of course.
The other option is to temporary have a wing mirror on the right side of the handlebar, not as good as looking back, but still a lots better than listening for incoming vehicles.
Also remember that you may not hear cyclist approaching, especially cyclists on fixed wheel bicycles, electric motorcycles, etc.
+1 - you can hear whether something's there, but you have no idea about what it's planning to do or whether it's seen you - looking over and making eye contact definitely makes me confident that the driver/cyclist has seen me and makes me feel much safer. I was also having problems actually doing this until I had a couple of sessions with a physio who has managed to get my rigid neck moving again
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Have you done any cycle training since you got back on your bike Shoosh? There's nothing like an expert second opinion, and they may be able to suggest other methods of maintaining awareness or mitigating your difficulty in looking behind. I am utterly sold on cycle training; it's free, you learn stuff, and become safer.
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I
(ii)
I rode down Mile End Rd a few weeks ago and cyclist did something really daft down the side of a bus. When I raised the issue (she) pulled off her headphones with that WTF do you want vibe. Before I could finish my brief point she put them back on and continued riding.
It left me wishing I could hand her an image of the horror site where the cyclist had died on tower Bridge Rd/crucifix Lane to shock her with rather than have her look at me like like she stepped in something and practically blank me.For the first time ever today I raised an issue with a cyclist, a girl did the exact same thing this morning on tottenham court road, the bus was turning right and she pulled up the right hand side of it as it was pulling away.
I rode up to her and told her not to do it again, unfortunately I actually witnessed the accident and aftermath on victoria park road round about a couple of months ago and am still very edgy and angry when I see people take unnecessary risks.
She looked so angry with me, I asked her if she'd ever seen anyone killed by taking a risk like the one she did and she just rolled her eyes at me, I finished by telling her that I had and didn't want to see another person killed in front of me this year. she was pissed at me sigh
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Good point. Despite all of the cycle training I do in schools there will be very few children taking it up: Biggest reason?
Mums and Dads ( and to a lesser degree, teachers) do not take cycle training seriously themselves and will be the biggest bar to kids riding, citing things like, 'it's too dangerous'.I'm looking to start some schemes that will focus specifically on the parents and teachers getting back on bikes and riding to school to show that it is not inherently dangerous.
Interesting pattern. I ride Hackney-South Ken every day, so my seven year old has (hopefully) a idea that cycling in traffic is safe if you do it properly.
However, I still don't let him cycle on the road (Hackney driving is pretty special) and we have a well-practised drill for stopping and waiting until I yell the all clear before he cycles across a road.
And we are also VERY polite to pedestrians, of course, and say "tahnk you" if they have to step aside. (I stick to the road even if he is on the pavement.)I also am a fan of cycle training and am even thinking of having a session myself - despite having cycled in traffic for 33 years (yikes) and getting 98% in my cycle proficiency in 1978.
BUT at what point will I feel confident that my child is ready for the roads (or the roads are ready for him)?
Any hints from other parents out there (and I am not trying to turn this into mumsnet, which brings me out in a rash).
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^ You might be better off asking in this thread https://www.lfgss.com/thread31997.html where all the mums and dads gather
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^ You might be better off asking in this thread http://www.lfgss.com/thread31997.html where all the mums and dads gather
thank you - but it's not like mumsnet, is it ....
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thank you - but it's not like mumsnet, is it ....
No, I don't think David Cameron has found it yet.
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a separate note to "go to the mums and dads thread"?
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About
Women's Safety in Traffic
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Ed, the difference, obviously, is that you are used to getting your cues from something other your sense of hearing, whereas hearing folks tend to rely on hearing and have not made the changes in order to effectively work without that sense being attuned to what's going on around them rather than distracting music in their ears.
And car drivers should be able to be pulled over and ticketed for reckless driving if their music is too loud, the same as if they had headphones in.