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@Skülly
Glad you're not all being twats by the way! I was half expecting to get shot down for this, Radar is that way >>>>>>> etc etc. I found it quite a stimulating subject, but maybe what TSK and andyp said are quite salient, that the two don't need to be discussed in the same breath ...
My bro' got cycling this year, he'd moved to Norwich from abroad and I fixed (well, SS'ed) him up with my first bike, and he loved it. He said he was chatting to dutch guy riding there, who'd observed that here in England almost everyone is trying to cycling realy really fast, race each other and all that, and that we were missing the point, somehow.