Spokes

Thanks SF, I've been speccing up some new wheels and, due to being a tart, had wanted to match certain colour schemes. I hadn't previously come across any mention of issues with alu nipples, just got me a bit worried.

I'm very careful when tensioning, and would consider brass drive side nipples for a heavily dished wheel.

For true tart-ism go titanium
http://www.tinipples.com/

Nothing the matter with DT spokes- quality has been top notch in my experience.

Also, because the thread is in the same place (relative to the rim) on long and short nipples, you can't use shorter spokes with longer nipples, unless the short nips would have been OK anyway- you'll land up with too little thread engaged. This may, or may not cause catastrophic failure of your wheel. Not a good place to gamble, IMHO.

Ermmm . . NO. I routinely use 16mm nipples, where the spoke I've got is 3 to 6mm too short. They have 4mm more depth of thread than 12mm nipples.

Actually keeping 16mm nipples in stock is well worthwhile. You can use a spoke up to 2mm over or 2mm under it's ''correct'' length (If you're 2mm under, it'll poke through the head of the nipple. So just run round, when all is done, with an angle grinder and take them back to flush. If you're 2mm over, it'll still have 5mm of thread engaged, and that's plenty). So you can keep - say - 292's, and use them for anything between 290 and 298.

Anyone know where I can source straight pull bladed spokes from? Like rocking horse shite, they are.

try pedal on, sf

I'm looking to build up some wheels and could do with some spoke recommendations :D

I'm looking at mavic open pro rims + dia compe or goldtec hubs (both black) and was thinking bout silver spokes.

I'm new to this fixed gear malarky (from mtb) so any experiences / opinions / recommendations would be welcomed

Cheers

I use Sapim spokes. Others swear by DT Swiss.

UTFS.

Plenty of threads on this no need for another.

http://www.lfgss.com/search.php?searchid=2869987

never had any probs with any SS spokes, cheap or expensive, butted or not. but for high tension get good nipples (and use a close fitting spoke wrench ) the cheap ones can round off.

I'd recommend double butted spokes. Something like Sapim Race, or DT Swiss Competition. I've used both and they are quality products. ACI spokes are cheaper though, and have been recommended by others.
http://www.cyclebasket.com/products.php?plid=m9b0s454p0

As for nipples, brass is easier to work with, as it doesnt round of so easily. It is also more resiliant to threading. So I use brass nipples on my commuting/touring wheels. For lightweight wheels, I use aluminium nipples. I have'nt had any problems with aluminium nipples, but I do use spoke prep on all my spokes and am careful with the spoke wrench on alu.

UTFS.

Plenty of threads on this no need for another.

http://www.lfgss.com/search.php?searchid=2869987

Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms.

I get this a lot when using links to other peoples searches. So it is probably a technical thingie. But still....;)

I think they are cached searches, so they only have a short life and then they are gone. It's always best to link to actual threads.

Well merged that man.

  On a similar topic. Measuring rim ERDs by hand. I've never bothered with this before, but need to soon. I was planning on nipping the J-bend off two spokes, and threading a nipple onto each, such that the spoke end is flush with the end of the nipple. I could then simply push the spokes through oppsite spoke holes, pull them tight, and then mark the overlap point. After, I simply lay the spokes out against a ruler, overlaping correctly, and measure the length. I could do this say four times, and use the average.

   Simple enough, but I am planning on using internal nipples + washers. Is it as simple as doing the same, but with the internal nipples + washers in place, and obtaining a type of virtual ERD for internal nipples. This seems a more idiot proof method than using the first method, then adding different between where the external nipple shoulder, and the internal nipple face, sits, when threaded onto a spoke.

Clear as mud :(

First, paragraphs. ;)

Second, there is quite a good set of videos on wheelbuilding that start with all the measurements - here -

EDIT: ok that's actully a bit shit on the ERD front, sorry. Good for getting a really quick overview of building tho.

Last time I measured a random rim, I just used a tape measure (going from oposite holes) and it was fine. Your first method sounds very acurate, but from my experience there is always leeway with spoke lenth.

That said you're using different nips, so I don't know if this changes things - but I'd think if anything, it'd change spoke length in the calculation rather than ERD.

Guessing you found this?

Kinda puts my tape measure to shame :(

There is one rim dimension: ERD

Effective Rim Diameter (ERD) is the diameter on which you want the ends of the spokes to lie. Most people prefer it near the end of the spoke nipple. If you want to measure your own rim (recommended, just to be sure), then follow these instructions:

[]Insert two old spokes into holes exactly opposite each other on the rim. Count holes to be sure.
[]Screw some nipples onto the spokes.
[]Pull them tight and measure dimension A in the figure (the diameter to the edge of the nipples, where the spokes disappears into them). Do this at several spots around the rim and average the measurements.
[]Measure the length of a nipple (dimension B in the figure) and add it twice (once for each nipple).
The result is Effective Rim Diameter (ERD). Thus, ERD = A + 2B.
Effective Rim Diameter (ERD) is the dimension you type into the form field for ERD. Of all the dimensions you actually might measure, ERD is the most critical dimension affecting spoke length, so it makes sense to measure it a few times at different places around the rim. Always count to make sure you use spoke holes that are actually opposite each other!

Guessing you found this?

Kinda puts my tape measure to shame :(

Yeah.
I'm just wondering about the effect of internal nipples really. I cant see any issue with my method other than the fact that my spoke ends on a completed wheel will be slightly to one side of the drilling, due to them entering the drilling at a angle (coming from the side of a hub, not the centre). this should'nt have a real effect on length though. I was just worried I had missed something.

BTW this is a nice page containing all the measurements + a calc tool. Very nice.
http://www.cycleway.net/protools/spokelencalc_eng.asp

DT supercomp spokes

Does anyone know of a London LBS with these in stock? Just Riding Along are charging £1.20 per spoke, but as I need 64 this is going to work out quite expensive.

You can get Titanium Pillars for that much

Whats the difference in spoke length between 3 and 4 cross? is it lots? I have some spokes that are too big (I'm shit at measuring) and was thinking of options other than trying to send them back. x

DT supercomp spokes

Does anyone know of a London LBS with these in stock? Just Riding Along are charging £1.20 per spoke, but as I need 64 this is going to work out quite expensive.

Supercomps rock!

Tried to build my 29er wheels with all revos for uber lightness. Nearly lost an eye, fecking nightmare. replaced all the disc brake side with super comps and it all went smoothly. Plus gave me stiffer wheels with little extra weight. Win, win and win.

http://www.ukbikestore.co.uk/product/58/sksc/dt-swiss-super-comp-black-spokes.html

At a guess the difference will depend on rim and hub size, low flange hub and high erd would lead to a bigger discrepancy.

smallfuzzball

had looked at ukbikestore but they dont appear to do individual spokes

what spoke pattern did you do for your 29er wheels

am thinking 3 cross front, 3cross non drive side and radial drive side, but have not built disc wheels before, should i be doing something different for the front wheel?

Whats the difference in spoke length between 3 and 4 cross? is it lots? I have some spokes that are too big (I'm shit at measuring) and was thinking of options other than trying to send them back. x

Would'nt attempt 4x on a 32 spoked wheel myself anyway. On a 36 spoked wheel its likely to be around 6mm with a massive guess margin.

Send them back.

Ah well, thats what I thought.

Cheers!

It's sickening when lbs' over charge for spokes, especially as much as that.

Parker have them on offer at the moment works out about 50 punds for 100 with delivery.

Even buying more than I needed it worked out much cheaper and now i have plenty of spares.

smallfuzzball

had looked at ukbikestore but they dont appear to do individual spokes

what spoke pattern did you do for your 29er wheels

am thinking 3 cross front, 3cross non drive side and radial drive side, but have not built disc wheels before, should i be doing something different for the front wheel?

With the Hope Pro trials hub I used for the rear. There is no dishing, as you have a short freehub one side and a disc mount on the other. So it made sense to use the same lacing on both sides (equal tension is king). The front was'nt far off either. So I went with my fav 32 spoke 3x on both.

My personal thinking was that lightweight spokes, at a 90 deg angle to radial. Would allow the wheels some flex to disipate impacts from riding off road (without sus). reducing snappage, and keeping them truer longer.

Cant say I like the idea of radial on a off-roader with disc brakes, either way.

It's in the nature of the capitalist beast that lbs' over charge for spokes, especially as much as that.

Parker have them on offer at the moment works out about 50 punds for 100 with delivery.

Even buying more than I needed it worked out much cheaper and now i have plenty of spares.

ftfy