Eilidh Cairns verdict

I'll need to check that later properly, but were the vehicles involved in the death of cyclists are tipper lorry? because if so, they do appear to be poorly maintained/driven in comparison to the HGV with trailer.

Not an articulated lorry != tipper lorry

That is a photo of a skip lorry lot a tipper lorry

An interesting stat would be % of HGV traffic in central London at peak time that are tipper / construction traffic

Some lorries have a glass panel low down by the feet so you have better vision.I notice this one doesn't.More thought needs to go into design to improve visibility

Has no one mentioned that the width of the road was only 2m wide and the lorry was 2.5m? I think its impossible to say whether it was the drivers fault completely, what annoys me the most is that we are supposedly the most watched country in Europe, yet there seems to be no CCTV released. And if there is, why has it not been?

I did read that, but I don't know how reliable that part of the description is.

Note the amount of attention the driver is paying.

Note also the idiot in the yellow jacket behind him looking to scoot past down the inside. While the driver appears to be gazing out his side window in what looks like stationary traffic,he's also driving well over to the left, leaving plenty of space for everyone to safely and legally overtake on the outside, and yet the retard in the hi-vis is still eyeing up the chance of dangerously cutting down the inside..

[/offtopic rant]
sorry. as you were...

Does anyone know the company the heavy belonged to?

From that Evening Standard it appears that the road design causes incidents:

“It notes that at one point it is two metres wide, while the vehicle in question is 2.5 metres wide.
“It is obvious now from the material obtained there have been other incidents at this crossing. There have been allegations of incidents resulting in serious injury that have been noted by the council.”

And did any of these allegations result in the crossing/junction design being altered?

I also note that the driver needed an interpreter. Which means he probably didn't get his HGV licence in the UK, but Portugal. Anyone know if the Portugese test is as rigorous as the British one?

On the width issue, the 2.5 metres extra width could be down to mirrors. If the outside track of the wheels is under 2 metres the truck would fit between the kerbs.

Note also the idiot in the yellow jacket behind him looking to scoot past down the inside. While the driver appears to be gazing out his side window in what looks like stationary traffic,he's also driving well over to the left, leaving plenty of space for everyone to safely and legally overtake on the outside, and yet the retard in the hi-vis is still eyeing up the chance of dangerously cutting down the inside..

[/offtopic rant]
sorry. as you were...

The driver is stopped in traffic! do you expect him to get out and carry out a 15 point security check, adjust all his mirrors and file a report on risks of accident given his current road position??!
if you look under his wheels he is right next to the white lines. the road is narrow and there is no bike lane

The big issue here is the tool in the hi vis. that spells death all over and yet he is looking to slip up the inside... no sense what so ever.

I'd say that was impossible, as we are constantly distracted by things from behind, in front, on the left and on the right, and in any situation where your are distracted by something on the left for example, all other sides are momentarily exposed to a freak accident, as your attention if elsewhere, especially so at speed.

In any case, training drivers of low visibility vehicles such as HGV to be more aware of the risks is a good way to go. However drivers won't be too concerned as they wont be the ones getting hurt.

I do think that cyclist training is the real way to go, because it is them, indeed us, that catch the brunt of a drivers inattention.

But it's still a gray area, as for example in London and other extremely congested roads, you are forced into dangerous situations, no matter what you do, or know.

It still makes me feel sad and helpless when i hear someone has died cycling on the road, because i always feel it could have been avoided, had the person known a little more about his/her safety on the road,
the driver been more aware of the risks to fellow cyclists
and the road been more suitable for cyclists.

The law means nothing because once a person dies, the damage has already been done.
Justice perhaps can be sought in the continual improvement of conditions for cyclists ?

Great post - deserves to be on this page as well.

MarkJ - we don't know enough to lay the blame on the lorry driver, i very much doubt he did it on purpose and i should imagine he has had some pretty horrible days when he has recounted what he went through. On the other foot, suggesting an improvement in cycling skills starts to suggest the victim was at fault. not good

Without a solid eye witness they can only speculate and select evidence to build a case, but humans have no more evolved to drive cars as we have to fly and we will make mistakes. this one being very, very costly

The best result is a huge rise in awareness on the risks of HGVs (this has been done, more than ever since Elidhs accident) and improved training/security measures on HGVs.
Did a summary of the drivers training/history and the HGVs condition make it into the trial?

A sorry verdict and one that appears to point to a badly-run inquest.

There is no question that drivers are badly affected when they kill a person, although reactions vary--some may succeed in persuading themselves that they weren't much to blame, while others may be completely traumatised and unable to overcome the guilt. It'll be something on that spectrum.

Victim-blaming is of course something that happens in a lot of instances, and there have unfortunately been cases in which cyclists have contributed to the risk in the situations that resulted in their deaths, but there is no question of that here--pending further information provided by the inquest transcript, what we've heard so far points to a rear-ending of Eilidh and her bike by the lorry driver's vehicle.

On the question of carriageway width, it is of course not correct to report that the carriageway at this point is 2m wide, as this would exclude certain classes of vehicle that are more than 2m wide (buses and lorries). This measurement must refer to the traffic lanes here.

The image above is a text book example of when a cyclist should get onto the pavement for a few seconds. Or, more sensibly, overtake on the outside

A sorry verdict and one that appears to point to a badly-run inquest.

+1

On the question of carriageway width, it is of course not correct to report that the carriageway at this point is 2m wide, as this would exclude certain classes of vehicle that are more than 2m wide (buses and lorries). This measurement must refer to the traffic lanes here.

I don't follow, carriageways are the actual road widths and therefore applicable to vehicle restrictions (like low bridges etc) Traffic lanes are whats left over if road works, bike lanes, obsticals etc are in the way?
or am i getting the wrong stick altogether?

Pavement is a tough one Mike as he has to then come back into the flow from the inside. near Liverpool st they have a bike lane that goes on then comes off to a stop. its deadly

one problem is dayglo nodders teach drivers to expect cyclists to undertake, not overtake

hence cars give extra clearance from the kerb for cyclists and the whole bad habit is reinforced

frequently when overtaking streams of traffic, cars pull out a little wider to let a cyclist undertake, without the driver first checking to make sure there is no one overtaking

education on all sides would be useful, and the more cyclists on the roads the more drivers will be trained to expect us

The image above is a text book example of when a cyclist should get onto the pavement for a few seconds. Or, more sensibly, overtake on the outside

oh come on, pavements? you're still undertaking a vehicle that way with the additional risk of peds.

overtake, or wait.

The image above is a text book example of when a cyclist should get onto the pavement for a few seconds. Or, more sensibly, overtake on the outside

Cyclists certainly shouldn't go riding on the footway in this situation--perhaps you meant pushing? Either overtake on the outside, as you say, or wait in the queue. It's not worth the risk to gain a few seconds.

I don't follow, carriageways are the actual road widths and therefore applicable to vehicle restrictions (like low bridges etc) Traffic lanes are whats left over if road works, bike lanes, obsticals etc are in the way?
or am i getting the wrong stick altogether?

Sort of. The street or road comprises the carriageway and possibly the footway. Both carriageway and footway can additionally be divided up into lanes (e.g., a cycle track or path on a footway, or several traffic lanes, perhaps a bus lane and two general traffic lanes, in the carriageway).

I like Tommy's analogy of carrying a heavy box through a school corridor. It sometimes shocks me that people think that getting past the lorry, at all costs, is 'the point'. If you're in a hurry, you should have left more time for your journey. Don't be so selfish. Your commute is not and should not be seen as a great chance to workout to supplement your training schedule. End of.

I think its a great shame that the coroner would not adjourn to allow evidence of bad road layouts to be looked at. Then at least Eilidh's tragic death may have helped have an effect on how planners see things like road-narrowings, and what dangers they pose to all road users, particularly the vulnerable.

+1 to skully

one of the things i have changed since my cycle training is that I don't filter to the front of lights as much.

there is always now the question at the back of my mind "what happens if the lights change and I am trying to squeeze past" - will i be putting myself at needless risk to save a car or bus length?

and yep it has slowed my journey to work by a couple of minutes

another +1 to Skully, commuting is not a good time to race.

Boris Johnson urged: Stop this slaughter of London cyclists

                                                            **Peter Dominiczak**
                                                                                                                                                           25.01.10                                                    

                             The sister of a cyclist crushed to  death by a tipper lorry today criticised [Boris  Johnson](http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/related-2285-boris-johnson.do) over the “needless slaughter” of riders on [London](http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/related-94056-london-england.do)'s  roads.

Driver Joao Lopes, 53, would have spotted her if his mirror had been adjusted correctly, an inquest heard. An accidental death verdict was recorded

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23798732-boris-urged-stop-this-slaughter-of-londoncyclists.do

Skully - heavy boxes? schools?
are we talking term time or Holidays? and when you say boxes - ireggular or uniform in shape?

I don't think the road layouts can be easily changed. i have seen perfectly safe junctions made into death traps by irresponsible drivers too damn lazy to walk and parking right on the edge. you also have the constant road works, deliveries etc the road space is as good as it can be and cost of change is huge.

I am more concerned at the HGVs suitability for being on londons Road, the article above points out - lifes can be saved by a few small changes.

its hard to swallow the fact a change in mirror is the difference in life and death but there is no incentive to check it or punishment for not doing it. we could pass the lorry on the left, right, never or every junction alternating sides. if he hasn't the tools to know whats about him its all moot

GS, I think the evidence presented speaks for itself. You can debate the contribution made by the road narrowing if you like. To me it is a distraction. I accept that it is unlikely that the driver hit her deliberately, having said that, I have been deliberately rammed from behind by vehicles more then once (as have many others on this forum).
The cyclist was in front of the HGV So the driver should have seen her: He should also have seen any narrowing of the road.
How can it not be his fault?

We all like to go to the shop for this and that, so lorries are a fact of life in the city.
What is needed is a fundamental change in driver training and behavior.
Training is in the hands of the DoT, behavior modification is a matter for the courts.
The coroner in this case has effectively closed the door on any further investigation or action under the RTA.

I concur. I do not think it unreasonable to expect a driver to be able to see what is on the road in front of him. And if a driver genuinely cannot see what is on a particular bit of road, then he should not drive into that space. With this in mind I think that the presumption should be that in the absence of evidence to the contrary, the driver was neglegent.

Aside from the issue of whether this particular driver should be punished, a big problem is that this judgement, and others before it, make it clear that you can drive neglegently and it doesn't matter, because even if you take a life, you will only get a slap on the wrist.

I fail to understand why part the function of many legal punishments is to funtion as a deterrent to others, but there is no mention of the idea that we need a legal deterrent to stop people from putting others' lives at risk on the roads.

This was sent to a journalist who wrote an article about Eilidh's inquest... he kindly forwarded it on to us.

Dear Sir,

In you article about road safety yesterday you quote the figure that
lorries account for 45 per cent of all London cyclist deaths, yet
represent only five per cent of road traffic.

May I point out that 100% of cyclists were involved in the above fatal
incidents, and I presume 100% of them saw the truck before the accident.
The simple way for cyclists to reduce the number of road deaths is to
stay well clear of HGVs.

Regards

Christopher Walton