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@felixf
wanted a surly one which is why i looked at there site but it says in moderately sized bold writing dont use them........
im fairly confident in my abilities.......... but i managed to strip BOTH threads on either side of flip/flop novetech thing and it turned out that it was to do with the threading, hence my worries.
would go for a phil one but im not sure i can justify the monies, from what i can work out its just really shiny and well machined.
thanks again, i'll look into the DA ones