The Ultimate Brakeless/Front/Rear/How many brakes? thread

under these circumstances (all at the same time):

1- you are descending a hill
2- you are travelling 25-30mph because of the hill3- you are taking a shallow right hand bend which causes your bikes angle to the road to be less than perpendicular
4- it has been raining

a car then pulls out of an unforseen side road, and you have no front or rear brakes, only your fixed gear bike.

How can you stop?

next question,

Who would have a better chance of stopping,
a/ brakeless fixie skidder
b/ front brake only SS rider

2 - SLOW DOWn

points 3 & 4 become irrelevant. If you hit the car then it is due to user error.

or

Bunnyhop.

g) get dr.metal to stand between you and the car. His sheer awesomeness will stop you in your tracks, provided you are riding in an ideal world, where all brakes work with little to no friction in the mechanisms, where braking is only ever performed on even surfaces heated to an even temperature of x degrees Celsius and in a line considered straight in relation to the travelling direction of both wheels

h) speed to 88mph and timetravel to a time before cars were invented

i) activate fire extinguisher whilst holding muzzle opposite to direction of travel

actually the correct answer is, j) do a barspin.

But on a serious note, lets hope non of the brakeless ever have to go down hill around corners in the wet and need to brake suddenly, because lets face it, its not going to be pretty.

for the record, i am brakeless.

Have to say it's all down to rider skill.

Fish don't stop. They they turn...

http://vimeo.com/586293[url="http://vimeo.com/586293"][/url
]

Dr. Mental aka Massan?

4 years in R&D
is he an academic

those that can - do
those that can't - teach

^ That worked well. No stutter this time.

vimeo.com/5862934

Have to say it's all down to rider skill.

Fish don't stop. They they turn...

Not many car or hills for them, plus they don't even ride bikes.

And it must be easier to slow down in water but that's for the scientists on the thread...

Dr Mental is clearly arrogant, however given his assumption (however poor they may be) he is correct. Some of you don't agree with his assumptions to do with fixed wheel braking which is fine and you would get different results. I don't agree with his ordering of fixed + front brake being slower to stop that rear disk only e.t.c. However then there are others are coming up with situations involving bunny hopping things e.t.c when all he is on about is slowing down. He is not on about different ways to avoid accidents he is on a bout stopping, effective braking systems not how to avoid an accident. This is unfair abuse towards him. I understand that his listing qualifications is very antagonistic so he deserves shovel full of internet punishment.

4 years in R&D
is he an academic

those that can - do
those that can't - teach

Teaching and R&D are not the same thing. Your this comment shows you know fuck all about both. This is the first comment I've read on this forum that has got me truly angry. Fucking gobshite.

Yay, Tommy is here.

James is a gobshite. You are correct and what's more you present critical information on how you arrived at this decision as well as how it makes you feel. This is a fully rounded theory with actual backing. I salute you.

If you notice from all of my comments in relation to dr.metal you'll see that I haven't once disputed his order (Though I do disagree with it), I have only ever questioned his methods and citations, something which I would genuinely still like to see.

I must have missed where the justification was for DrMetal arriving at his ordering of his list- if it is there then I apologise for that, however his method/premise must be wrong as as you point out a rear disc will not stop a bicycle as fast/efficiently as (almost any kind of) front brake.

Ergo his method of determining his list is faulty.

The me>you bit did not help, especially given his errors.

He hasn't posted his justification, that's the fucking point.

At present all he has given is his personal opinion, under the guise of fact.
He's ignored requests for the calculations and his end product appears to be flawed for a number of reasons.

Without poroof of these apparent facts this is fictitious at best and dangerous at worst as anybody could be reading these pages and assume that this joker is telling the truth.

I am not in any way claiming that it is not possible to ride bikes with weird or out of the ordinary brake set ups. What is wrong is trying to imply that certain setups are better when this would only ever come down to rider ability.

I ride a brakeless BMX.
Brakeless Fixed.
Rear Brake SS.
Fully braked road bike.

I've also ridden pretty much all of the other examples in this thread (Though don't get me started on the fact he talks only about disk, single and dual pivot (What about Linear (Vs), the differences between mech and hydro disks, hydro rims, U calipers, rod brakes, drum brake, coaster brakes and all the other variations of brakes that have ever been available)).

The point isn't that some riders will be able to ride a particualr setup safetly. The point is that some cretin who doesn't know any better may see this list and assume that it's correct. Thereby putting themself at risk as they are on a bike which they are ill equipped to stop.

Glad I had not missed the justification- these contact lenses can last a little longer.

He gave a brief explanation here, although it seems a bit flakey.
That isn't an explanation is a description of method.

That is:

Aim of study: Prove which braking system will stop a bike quicker whilst moving in a straight line.
Method: Use calculations based on Joules per second per area of contact, with respect to heat loss as a function of temperature
**Workings & Citations:

ALL CREDIT TO: **dr.metal

I saw that- but it is a classic demo of the underpant gnomes principle.

The important part is missing.

Yep he really needs to fully explain his methodology. It seems strange for someone in his lofty posision not to do so. I suppose my point was that by his methodology (however wrong his methodology is) he is correct because he has come up with his own theory. Kind of a circular argument, I'm speaking bollocks

it was more the argument that brakes don't matter in xyz situation is irrelevantly to his stopping distance argument.

Of course brakes arn't everything only on tuesday it it was not for my mad bunny hop skillz I would have ended up having a head on with a lorry who pulled out round the road works on outside the British museum but that is still irrelevant to his stopping distance argument..

Yep he really needs to fully explain his methodology. It seems strange for someone in his lofty posision not to do so. I suppose my point was that by his methodology (however wrong his methodology is) he is correct because he has come up with his own theory. Kind of a circular argument, I'm speaking bollocks

it was more the argument that brakes don't matter in xyz situation is irrelevantly to his stopping distance argument.

Of course brakes arn't everything only on tuesday it it was not for my mad bunny hop skillz I would have ended up having a head on with a lorry who pulled out round the road works on outside the British museum but that is still irrelevant to his stopping distance argument..

Yeah what ever tommy...

200m Swimming Badge
Cyling Profficancy - Passed, aged 11
D in Physics
Can hold my breath for 2min23sec

Thus,

me>you

fuck, I can only hold my breath for 2min21sec.
and I can't spell proficiency either.

damnit!, bloody spealchecker

Therefore Hael>Kipsy

I take your cycling proficiency badge and raise you a cub scout cycling merit badge

ade>all?

I didn't pass my cycling proficiency test as I couldn't ride a bike at the time of the test.

While all the other kids were weaving in and out of traffic cones and generally fucking shit up and passing, I was learning how to ride a bike on another kid's rusty old 90's unipack BMX shopper MTB jobbie.

They told me I had to go back and retake the test during the summer holidays. I didn't. Fuck the system!