Are cyclists a menace?

i think talking about crayons constitutes moving on
;)

haha nice

you're a

self-regarding maniac FTW!!

Interesting list of speakers tho, especially the editor of punch who is still alive 'cos a bus missed him.

Not only are they a menace, they're antisemite bigots intent on destroying British society as we know it through clandestine promotion of evil Islamic law at madrasas disguised as bicycle shops.

Not only are they a menace, they're antisemite bigots intent on destroying British society.

The Royal family?

Interesting list of speakers tho, especially the editor of punch who is still alive 'cos a bus missed him.

Small world - that's the reason I'M still alive too!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/green-living-blog/2009/dec/01/cyclists-menace-spectator-debate

Andrew Gilligan on the night:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/6724318/Us-Cyclists-arent-a-menace-were-freedom-fighters.html

(A huge number of comments on this story.)

Includes some evidence of cyclist inferiority complex, like ...

I do that because it is dangerous for me to start from traffic lights in the middle of a stream of accelerating traffic.
... as a justification for red-light jumping. Despite the incidents in which forumengers have been involved in this week, this is not 'dangerous'.

And his answer to this relatively minor question ...

I wonder why cyclists, objectively quite a minor road hazard, get so much flak. Perhaps it's because mass cycling in our cities is relatively new. But I think it's also because we're free – and the rest of you are jealous.
... can also be improved upon. Cycling is still something of a minority activity in this country, and minorities are typically discriminated against--simples.

There's probably intended to be Telegraph-style slant on this, and it's not one of the worst things I've read in the Telegraph.

I notice that (after clearly failing in it's mission to stage an anti-cyclist hate-fest) all evidence of this debate ever existing has been removed from The Spectator website.

What a bunch of yellow-bellied hysterical old windbags.

I was riding down a 4 lane road in the left lane. I came to a green light and went to go through it. A car in the left lane (going the same direction as me) got sick of waiting for the car in front of him to turn left so he swerves into my lane and continues to go straight. I slammed on brake and simultaneous had to hop skid stop to miss his back fender. I could seem him through his rear window chatting and laughing with his passenger. I caught up with him as he sat in traffic and knocked on the passenger window and smiled. He rolled down his window. I politely explained that had I not been skilled enough to stop like that (if I do say so myself) I would have been picking my teeth out of his boot. His wife looked honestly sorry but neither apologised. He said "ok, that's fine, but let me just say one thing, don't run red lights." Confused I explained it was a green light, the same one he himself went through. He said "yes but you all jump red lights" and rolled up his window.
My very round about point is that the media has been able to get most of society to paint us with one segragist brush. It smacks of just the most recent socially-accepted bigotry. Blacks, muslims, women, gays, cyclists...

http://somervillenews.typepad.com/the_somerville_news/2004/09/thief_give_me_a.html

Burn the cyclist menace. Burn them all. Drivers will rejoice, the climate will return to normal and children will sing.

I was riding down a 4 lane road in the left lane. I came to a green light and went to go through it. A car in the left lane (going the same direction as me) got sick of waiting for the car in front of him to turn left so he swerves into my lane

Do you mean you were in the right lane?

and continues to go straight. I slammed on brake and simultaneous had to hop skid stop to miss his back fender. I could seem him through his rear window chatting and laughing with his passenger. I caught up with him as he sat in traffic and knocked on the passenger window and smiled. He rolled down his window. I politely explained that had I not been skilled enough to stop like that (if I do say so myself) I would have been picking my teeth out of his boot. His wife looked honestly sorry but neither apologised. He said "ok, that's fine, but let me just say one thing, don't run red lights." Confused I explained it was a green light, the same one he himself went through. He said "yes but you all jump red lights" and rolled up his window.
My very round about point is that the media has been able to get most of society to paint us with one segragist brush. It smacks of just the most recent socially-accepted bigotry. Blacks, muslims, women, gays, cyclists...
I wouldn't see it quite so dramatically--essentially, all change brings up fears in people. This country is currently undergoing a change--in nothing more dramatic than its transport profile--and for a lot of people, that's happening much too quickly. It's important to remember that in such a class-riven country, people strive for status symbols perhaps more than elsewhere, and driving has always been one. Most of the attitudes that were in force when the 'upper' classes first took to motoring still persist. Suddenly, that's all supposed to be changing--it's terribly confusing.

The driver's attitude, of course, was well off. I hate it when they just close the window.

Ah well my post was imperfect. But you get the moral.
Oliver, rather than disagreeing though I think you've made my point even stronger. You've just said they are classist bigots.
And yes change is hard for some; women voting, blacks allowed in, homosexuals getting married, cyclists having a right to the lane.

Oh and I was in the left lane the driver was in the right (stopped) then swerved into mine.

Ah well my post was imperfect. But you get the moral.
Oliver, rather than disagreeing though I think you've made my point even stronger. You've just said they are classist bigots.
And yes change is hard for some; women voting, blacks allowed in, homosexuals getting married, cyclists having a right to the lane.

Oh, I wasn't really disagreeing, I suppose, just offering a layer of explanation and a different way of seeing it. I don't particularly have solutions how to reduce people's fears. Often there's not much you can do.

Oh and I was in the left lane the driver was in the right (stopped) then swerved into mine.

Ha, I wouldn't have guessed. If you want to avoid American/British confusions, you could always more generally speak of nearside and offside lanes, but then many Americans wouldn't know what you mean. ;)

Yes, England's English is imperfect, good thing they have us Americans slowly making everything clearer.
I mean really, "nearside, offside" Srsly?!? He was on my right, I was on his left. Done. Sorted. Get 'er dun.