How to build a (full) Crows Foot wheel

I’ve been searching the internet for a ‘how to’ guide for building wheels crows feet and had no luck.

This site seems to be linked alot: http://www.geocities.com/_something_or_other_to_do_with_crowsfoot_was_here_but_isn’t_now/ … anyone know what www.geocities.com has become?

Spoke and Wheel has lots of useful info but doesn’t give you a thorough ‘how to’.

Mine will be a full 36h, with the spokes sitting next to each other / 2cross a la:

If there is a good reason why 3 cross like this would be better - I'd love to hear it. The wheel is going to be a rear with a coaster brake for a town/beater.

My main problem is how to start.

If the radial spokes go on the outside of the crossing spokes I’d have thought you do this last?

So i'd have thought....

1. Lace one side 2 cross;
   
2. Lace the radial spokes on the same side;
   
3. Do the same for the other side?
   
   

Any hints, tips, links, youtubes welcome.

Also in the spoke and wheel page he says (para 7):

-"The radial spoke should not be greased like in an all radial wheel."

Quick search revealed this post saying the same RE no nipple greesing on radial builds - opinons pls?

Once I've built mine I'll edit the OP to give a how to guide

Build the all of the 2 cross, roughly tension it, and then build the radial, roughly tension that, then balance both.

This is the advice that I was told by Warwick Spencer, the mechanic at Cyclefit who built my hybrid crows foot wheels.

I'd probably say it would depend on whether your radial spoke will be inbound (head out) or outbound (shoulder out).
If your going outbound then i'd leave them till last as they will be no problem to feed through and pivot up into the right position.
If your going inbound with them though you might find it difficult to get the spokes pivoted around the shoulder once all your 2 cross spokes are in place.
Imo inbound looks better for radial spokes but check Sheldon to see which is stronger as it might be outbound because that way the forces are shared better between spoke and flange.
Also imo building one side of a wheel then the other is just making life harder for yourself. Even wih fully radial patterns i tend to build intermitantly on either side.
Also, re greasing etc of spokes and nipples, i'v never used grease oil or loctite on any wheel build and have noticed that radial spokes certainly loosen off more than crossed spokes. So if you tend to grease your spokes normally, i'd def miss it out on the radials.

Imo inbound looks better for radial spokes but check Sheldon to see which is stronger as it might be outbound because that way the forces are shared better between spoke and flange.

for radial
outbound = stronger by a tiny amount
inbound = more aero by a even tinyer amount

I'd do as both mechanical vandal and Velocio advises, and do 2-cross first, then outbound radial. But I've never tried myself, so its just a thought.

Build the all of the 2 cross, roughly tension it, and then build the radial, roughly tension that, then balance both.

This is the advice that I was told by Warwick Spencer, the mechanic at Cyclefit who built my hybrid crows foot wheels.

Hmmm, I'm looking to get some wheels built later this month. Is it something Warwick does often? If so, what does he charge?

Cheers

I'd probably say it would depend on whether your radial spoke will be inbound (head out) or outbound (shoulder out).
If your going outbound then i'd leave them till last as they will be no problem to feed through and pivot up into the right position.
If your going inbound with them though you might find it difficult to get the spokes pivoted around the shoulder once all your 2 cross spokes are in place.
Imo inbound looks better for radial spokes but check Sheldon to see which is stronger as it might be outbound because that way the forces are shared better between spoke and flange.
Also imo building one side of a wheel then the other is just making life harder for yourself. Even wih fully radial patterns i tend to build intermitantly on either side.
Also, re greasing etc of spokes and nipples, i'v never used grease oil or loctite on any wheel build and have noticed that radial spokes certainly loosen off more than crossed spokes. So if you tend to grease your spokes normally, i'd def miss it out on the radials.

What he said. but personally I like to lightly oil my nipples with three in one when building. Depending on how you want your radial spokes will determine the order.

The geocities cite has become http://spokeanwheel.110mb.com/ now so you have found the cite that eveyone had linked too.

I don't think there is any significant advantage of crows foot over three cross, other than aesthetics, one possible disadvantage MIGHT be something like slightly more strain on the flanges on the radial spoke just like with a full radial wheel). Another factor MAY be the because most of the spoke will be in it's elastic region and the extension in per unit length (strain) for force per unit area (streess) then you might have more slackening off of the rim on the spokes when you hit a bump on some part of the wheel than on others. However the two cross spokes would be experiencing less force due to the angle they run out. Now we are dealing with small theta so everything staying roughly linear and the two effects may balance each other out. These are all very hypothetical and probably very minor. I can't see as if you will have any problems

Hmmm, I'm looking to get some wheels built later this month. Is it something Warwick does often? If so, what does he charge?

Cheers

He's back in a land down under at the moment, but there are quite a few great wheel builders out there. I'd recommend Rob Pennell for wheel building at the moment. Note: my recommendations are based purely on quality and workmanship and not price or urgency.

Rob Pennell: robert.pennell@sky.com

Thanks, Much obliged.

I'll build you a crows foot.

Fuck knows why anyone would want one but if you're sure you want one I'll happily build it for you.

I built one on the last wheel. 36 hole.. they look the nuts and are strong as

.....strong as your nuts?

twin-shooter FTW.

a three cross wheel.

Bollocks.
Crows feet are weak as fuck - a blunt swiss army knife would have one off.

i'd build the radial first. but you could do it any way.

Thanks for all the advice - useful as always.

RE: why I want Crows Feet... its got nothing to do with strength or lateral strength or torque transfer characteristics.

Its basicaly bc I saw Velocio's yellow BJ, and liked the way all the spokes exit the hub on the the same side.

My first (and only) set of wheels were 3X so I figure I should try something different. Plus this'll give me some experience of a couple of diff patterns in one.

With 36h and DB spokes I really can't imagine it failing massively on a town bike... but if I die I'm happy to have this post quoted on my tombstone.