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The whole point of Paclite is that its lightweight and you can compress it down easily without damaging the fabric (or rather its designed to be compressed down, whereas normal gore-tex fabrics aren't), I don't get the point of this eVENT lark, lightweight but not designed to be compressed down, heavier than Paclite but lighter than Goretex, it can't seem to make up its mind?!
If I was going to go with a lightweight and durable shell jacket (i'm talking non cycling specific here), it'd have to be HH or Berghaus IMO.The point of eVent is this:
In a two-fabric world (Paclite & ProShell, say), Paclite is not an option for a group of people on adequacy grounds, it's just too fragile for serious outdoor use. So you're left with ProShell. Along comes eVent. It passes the adequacy test - the stuff is tough. But it gives you: lighter weight, both from the fabric and design (no need for pit-zips with eVent!); greater breathability. Two massive pluses! There's basically not reason not to chose it - it is the better fabric.
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Agreed. My eVent jacket is MUCH better than my Gore-tex jacket.
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The point of eVent is this:
In a two-fabric world (Paclite & ProShell, say), Paclite is not an option for a group of people on adequacy grounds, it's just too fragile for serious outdoor use. So you're left with ProShell. Along comes eVent. It passes the adequacy test - the stuff is tough. But it gives you: lighter weight, both from the fabric and design (no need for pit-zips with eVent!); greater breathability. Two massive pluses! There's basically not reason not to chose it - it is the better fabric.
You make a fair point on the breathability stakes (between eVENT and Proshell Goretex anyway)...at least in terms of the lab figures that both give.
However the fact that Gore-tex have been around for significantly longer as a company (and have an outstanding reputation), makes me trust their quality as a brand more so than a relative newcomer, if eVENT stand the test of time then I may well be tempted to swap in the near future, for now though you can have my Gore-tex paclite jacket, when you prise it out of my cold dead hands.... ;) -
Have you ever used eVent James? Your argument is rather obstinate if you're going on reputation alone (although you do own a Gore-Tex jacket so it must be better...).
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eVent has been around a fair while too (10 years or so, from memory). And, it has far high usage among hard-core users than gore-tex, relative to the average user (at least in my experience) - if there were issues, these people simply wouldn't use the stuff and you'd hear about it. You don't, anyone that uses eVent (that I know) doesn't look back. And the fact that the no-compromise climbing clothing manufacturers use it speaks volumes. E.g. Rab, Crux:
http://www.crux.uk.com/en/crux_technical_eventfabric.php
I put Gore-tex's market dominance down to superior marketing and Microsoft-esque anti-competitive practices :-)
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Have you ever used eVent James? Your argument is rather obstinate if you're going on reputation alone (although you do own a Gore-Tex jacket so it must be better...).
No I haven't mate, but i'm not being stubborn, read back what I was saying, I said once eVent has been around for a bit longer I may well be tempted to pick one up/swap, and the breathability is better on paper.
In terms of quality then if they continue to produce stuff thats getting rave reviews, I guess i'll have to come round eventually, but for now i'm sticking with my Gore-tex until it wears out :) -
I have a decent event jacket I did the 24 peaks in - even with merino base layer I sweated like a rapist (and it was properly cold)..... honestly can't tell the difference between event & gore-tex
ahhh, that's probably because you didn't do it in a Paramo...
having had eVent (most breathable and previous bike favourite), XCR (tough as nails, great for climbing, especially in granite chimneys!) and PacLite (stashes away as my backup jacket for hiking/climbing but sweat fest when cycling), Paramo is the most breathable yet.
right, back to bike radar...
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I find the high quality artificial stuff is much better at wicking and faster drying, however I like the fact merino is warm even when you're only wearing a thin layer of it.
At the moment I am wearing a HH Lifa Base Layer, with a North Face Merino wool layer over the top, this and a shell jacket for the really cold days is more than warm enough for me in the winter, and I stay dry also with this combo, even when getting pretty sweaty.Merino is really good stuff, the problem i've found though is when it gets wet it takes longer to dry than my HellyHansen Synthetic base layers, this means if you're sweating a lot, or its humid, or raining a little bit, you will get colder faster in a merino layer from windchill, however merino is better at insulating, just not as good at keeping you dry.
Its horses for courses, i've found one Merino over the top of a synthetic to be the "ultimate combo" in the winter, its what I wear when I go snowboarding as well, you get the best of both worlds, good wicking performance and decent warmth.
Sometimes though I just wear the synthetic and throw my jacket over the top, since I don't seem to suffer the cold as badly as most people.
I'd get one of each at least anyway, one base layer is never enough, I must have 5 or 6 now I think....**Also these come very highly rated by a lot of people: [http://www.outdoormania.co.uk/Item-0-0-cat-7-brand-760-Helly_Hansen_Odin_High_Neck.aspx**](http://www.outdoormania.co.uk/Item-0-0-cat-7-brand-760-Helly_Hansen_Odin_High_Neck.aspx)
Easily the equivalent warmth wise of a couple of base layers, but with less bulk.
**Combines the best of both worlds: **
Lifa + Merino > Merino IMO
I think Synthetics only take on a perma-stench if you don't wash them with decent stuff, after selling all this kinda shizzle to people for nearly 4 years when I was younger, anytime I recommended someone use a decent anti-bacterial wash their base-layers stopped smelling like shit all the time, amazing eh!
Good quality merino is great, good quality synthetic material is great, but they need to be treated accordingly, and anything thats spending that much time being sweated in should be washed in a decent anti-bacterial base layer wash if you want to stay hygenic.
Also bear in mind that each material has its plus points and different uses, for instance in the height of summer, I wouldn't wear Merino Wool unless I wanted to be swimming in my own sweat and feel constantly moist, likewise in the winter I wouldn't wear just a synthetic unless I wanted to be freezing my arse off all the time.
This is why most top end base-layers, designed for heavy physical activity in extreme cold weather combine high end Merino Wool, and high end synthetic material, which as I have been saying is the superior combo over just Merino on its own under these conditions. I get by on nothing but a synthetic layer, underneath a merino layer, underneath a shell jacket, all winter long... and I stay dry and warm :)Yes generally, although this obviously depends on the synthetic in question, but put a super high end synthetic against super high end merino wool, compare wicking performance and the synthetic will win everytime.
James has almost got it right here ^ **assuming you don't have to take into account the windchill factor then yes it is warmer even when holding fluid, however if you are not planning on wearing a shell jacket over the top to prevent windchill, then you should wear a synthetic layer underneath which keeps the moisture off of your skin and in the merino instead, allowing fluid to continue to evaporate into the air without taking your bodyheat with it, as the synthetic layer is wicking moisture away from your skin faster than the merino on its own would. **
Due to the nature of merino and the way it holds fluid, it will be more prone to windchill if you are not wearing a shell on top of it, or a synthetic underneath.
I find this warm enough most of the winter and only put a shell on when it gets really humid or is raining/exceptionally windy.guys, guys, focus here. Merino vs Thermolite
I already have a jacket, thanks you
Ahem ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Oh and a recommendation below ;) >
**If you're just going to buy one layer, and one only for the winter, this is THE one: **
High quality Merino, high quality synthetic, i'd get one if I didn't already have shitloads of base-layers and combinations that can do the same job, this does the same thing as my 2 base layer combo pretty much.
I'm looking for armwarner and base layers, both
any advise for a good armwarmers???
See below, if you get a good base layer you shouldn't need arm warmers unless you have joint problems or get particularly cold arms, a good quality base layer should have no problems keeping your arms warm. >
Why do you want seperate?
Get something like that and it'll keep both your arms and your body more than warm enough, and dry to.
and >
I've never owned armwarmers, but I would save your money, try that baselayer first, and then if you feel you need additional insulation for your arms look into armwarmers I guess?
cheaper than the Santini I can get Endura Merino ones..... merino vs thermalite
If all the above is not enough information to make an informed decision on what is best, I seriously give up!
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jajaja!
then give up.
I want some armwrners, period. it is not a discusssion.
I will buy also some base layers, I think there is differnet situation for use both of them.
I have read and make my mind don't worry
I prefer eVent rather tham Gore.
thanks a lot James, seriouslyYeah I guess there are other times when you could use armwarmers, just never seen the need for them myself, but that is personal preference.
Base layer wise I think i've clarified as much as I can, that different materials really should be used for different purposes, its never a case of one does it all.
Its an area of clothing where you really will not regret spending that little bit extra, the Helly Odin is an amazing base layer for winter use, i'm even tempted to get one myself despite already owning a million other base layers, and a helluva lot of other technical clothing!
Let me know what you go for in the end, i'll be interested to know, and you're welcome. -
ahhh, that's probably because you didn't do it in a Paramo...
having had eVent (most breathable and previous bike favourite), XCR (tough as nails, great for climbing, especially in granite chimneys!) and PacLite (stashes away as my backup jacket for hiking/climbing but sweat fest when cycling), Paramo is the most breathable yet.
right, back to bike radar...
I agree, Paramo > *. It's the choice of certain mountain rescue teams for a reason...
want me to sort a group buy for some bwahaha :-)
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Cashmere, M8.
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I agree, Paramo > *. It's the choice of certain mountain rescue teams for a reason...
want me to sort a group buy for some bwahaha :-)
Forgive further discussion/hijack Rik (my 2p Icebreaker all the way) but as regards Paramo they've got their annual Paramo sale coming up.
Uplands Community College, Lower High Street, Wadhurst, East Sussex, TN5 6AZ
on Saturday 5 December from 10.00-15.00.Not the most glamorous location and a bit of a jumble sale rummage, but you can get some serious bargains on top notch gear....just be wary, Paramo converts are little bit geek freak scary ;)
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I bought my last long sleeve turtle neck merino layer from H&M at a discounted price of 10 quid.
Have a hole in it from incident rather than just a wear but stitched it up and it almost does not show :)
just looking for some reasonably priced fine merino t shirts, anybody know any london based, physical shop where I can get any? :] -
condor for rapha
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thank fuck, i almost told someone with a troll for an avatar to just fucking google merino t-shirt
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After a chilly 15 Km run on sunday. I wrang a silly amount of sweat out of my merino buff, which I was using as a beanie. My head had felt perfectly warm the whole run though.
Merino rocks.
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Ray Mears in northern wilderness was explaining the virtues of caribou skin clothing for cold temperatures.
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I'm currently sitting at the comp in an Endura BaaBaa base layer. In a word. it's brilliant. I've been wearing it on and off for about a week, it has got no odours at all and is in fact quite breathable (compared to Merino which is a bit sweaty and pongy).
It's extremely comfortable and well fitting.
Most importantly it is VERY warm!
Hope that helps.
+1
Amazing, even my Icebreakers pong after a week - I followed your recommendation and bought a couple, the BaaBaa somehow smells like it has just been taken out of the packet, even after a week of hard use - also comfy & warm
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Thermolite vs Merino
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