Compulsory Basic Training

Disclaimer: Forgive me if this has been raised by anyone else / buried for being shit but there doesnt appear to be any thread (i just did a search) which deals with this directly.

I notice a considerable ammount of discussion about cyclists getting injured or even killed by trucks/cars/motorbikes and so wanted to raise this now as I wondered what others think about it.

The road is shared by a seeming hirearchy of danger. Top of the tree is probably buses&trucks and right at the bottom I guess there's people on bicycles.

In terms of alertness to impending danger the heirarchy is probably turned on its head. People on bikes, you'd think would be more aware of approaching hazards than people in more air-conditioned, padded comfort of motor vehicles.

Personally, I ride a bike, a motorbike & a car on the road so see it from a few differnet angles.

I concede that people in cars are everyday guity of doing stupid shit like turning without indicating, overtaking cyclists only to turn left the moment they've done so (my personal pet hate). One of the things that strikes me though is that I see far more stupid 'road craft' by people on bicycles. Really fucking braindead stupid shit like blind-side undertaking buses right at the point they're about to pull out. Even just drifting into the middle of the road without even a glace over the shoulder to see whats going on behind them.

Before I could take a motorbike on the road I had to take a CBT (Compulsory Basic Training). Its not a test, you can't fail it, but it is compulsory. This training is utterly invaluable in my oppinion, it taught me a great deal about blind spots in cars and as I mentioned above something as simple as looking over your shoulder before making any kind of lateral movement (something they call the 'life saver').

Introducing a CBT for cyclists is obviously not practicle and would be largely shunned by most cyclists I'd say, including myself.

I'm thinking there must be a way of getting this kind of help/training/information through to cyclists though. Just not sure how.

Just interested if anyone has any thoughts about this?

There is no way to administer it as bikes are not registered with licenses.

I did my cycling proficiency test, and I had the badge tattooed onto my forehead.

I've done my cycling proficiency three times (cubs, scouts, school). Only passed once. Not very attentive.

I think you are right that cyclists can make some foolish mistakes. I think there should be a huge amount of courses available to suit people who do want to get into cycling for the first time or those that have just started and want to improve their confidence.

Perhaps you could incentivise people by providing tax free bikes if they take part in the training - this could then reduce the amount of idiocy on the road. Though I'm not certain there would be a link between training and a reduction of deaths, I would think that the deaths are more due to drivers fault as they are in possesssion of the vehicle that can harm people. Some of the people killed on the road are experienced cyclists with all the protective gear etc and there is nothing they could do to prevent the accident. I guess it takes two to tango.

The CBT taught me very little, most of your learning comes from actual riding on the road, + experience, this is for both motorbikes and bikes. I'd say training was practical for absolute beginners or the elderly, or young children, people with no experience on 2 wheels.

wow, if you had searched for cycle training you might have found this thread that was started less than 24 hours ago

https://www.londonfgss.com/search.php?searchid=4146514

no it is not compulsory but then do idiot pedestrians need training to cross streets?

I have cycled all my life as has my wife.
We have a son aged 8 and we have tried to pass on as many of our skills as we can together with practical cycling on country lanes , cycle trails etc.
He is also a member of Hillingdon Slip Streamers and the quality of their coaching is awesome.
He has learnt how to ride as part of a group, how to overtake, ride an inch behind the real wheel of the rider in front and also how to ride through confined spaces with another rider whilst leaning against each other.
Not only that , but he has taken part in a time trial and is learning the art of road racing.
In my oppinion he is extremely lucky and the sooner you can get children into some type of cycluing club then hopefully this will translate into better cyclists on the road.

wow, if you had searched for cycle training you might have found this thread that was started less than 24 hours ago

http://www.londonfgss.com/search.php?searchid=4146514

its a different kind of thread, you asked for no debate in your thread, no opinions, just questions. but thanks anyway.

i asked for no debate in my thread on the pros and cons

i also linked to a thread which did debate such matters

at no point did i say no opinions and actually i was quite surprised and greatful at the degree of support it has had.

as i'm sure robertAJB is quite surprised and grateful from the degree of support he has had from you.

I am of the belief that people should be made to take tests before they are allowed to leave their homes in the morning. Most would fail. But it doesn't stop them

but then you'd seriously reduce the amounts of riders on the road. i think the system we've got now is best, you learn by your self with time and experience.

I personally think that a CBT is actually a very good idea.
Surely a CBT would ensure you have reached a minimum safe standard and the learning of skills to be come a good rider would follow after years of experience on the road.

The CBT taught me very little, most of your learning comes from actual riding on the road, + experience, this is for both motorbikes and bikes. I'd say training was practical for absolute beginners or the elderly, or young children, people with no experience on 2 wheels.

This is true and you may have learnt very little but many would. When my girlfriend started riding I was amazed that so many thing I took for granted as common sense that I assumed everyone knew where new to her.

I echo those sentiments because as a newbie to riding a fixed gear the help and advice I was given on Saturday's Circle Ride have proved to be very helpful.
Not being devoid of common sense, but better and less painful to learn from other peoples mistakes and experience.

I think that breadth of experience helps also- using a different form of transport than the one that you are used to opens your eyes to many differences in behaviour.

For example many people who drive all the time would be shocked by a ride through London on a bicycle at rush hour, conversely I think that a lot of bicycle riders would benefit from driving an HGV through rush hour and appreciating the limited visbility etc.

Totally impractical on an organised "you must do this" level, but something that one can organise for oneself if motivated.

I am always surprised by what it is like to drive a 7.5 tonner when I help a friend move house- very tricky to see other than directly in front of you.

After 2 years of trying to have a constructive debate in these kind of threads along the lines of the OP, i am now throwing the towel in, and contributing this as my sole observation - Its like every thing in life, some people are good at stuff, and others are crap, and its no different with riding a bike, no matter how much you try and teach them so people will always be a liability

Maybe it's just peoples attitude that needs a CBT.
I try and do everything to the best of my ability and take a certain amount of pride in my riding & driving.
It seems to me that a lot of road users are indifferent to others wherher they are cyclists or other vehicle users.

Certainly cyclists need some sort of training/education for riding on the road. I have just returned from a drive into my office in central London. I couldn't believe how many riders there were with no lights. Helmets, hi vis vests but no lights??? What is that all about? I know its an old moan but to me as a rider and a driver lighting is a real basic requirement for safety, even in town.

There is tonnes of training out there available for people that want it. Most councils will fund training and some even pay for you to attend a one day maintenance course for free. cycle training uk do lessons that are designed specifically for whatever you want- whether its a teenager, or a family, or an experienced rider, you can get training that suits what you are interested in.
Making it compulsory probably would prevent even more people than are prevented by fear as it is. In Holland, Sweden (etc. etc.) cycling skills are passed down through the generations and nobody feels the need for training over there. Nearly everyone is a cyclist too so that makes a difference in their attitude on the days when they are driving a car.

The main difference with cycling in Holland & Belgium is their cycle lanes.
They are extremely safe to use and the unwritten rule is that bikes take priority over motor vehicles.
Bikes are also used as a form of transport and not just as a leisure activity.
Maybe one lesson we can learn from them is that they do not jump red lights as either a cyclist or pedestrian. Perhaps why car users are very tolerant of cyclists is that they obey the rules of the road.