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@simonw7
oh dear it's all coming out now.
in fact the ferrules i had to hand (which were from a shimano MTB cable set i had for another bike) did not fit into the cable stays on the top tube (too large), so i just let the cable outer sit in the stays with no ferrules...i didn't think that this in itself would have caused a problem...but am well experienced in being wrong. Have to look for some smaller ferrules. The frame is late 1970's Dawes Road bike, will have to do a Sheldon to see what array of information he might have on ferrule diameters for bikes across the ages, and then of course a new smaller ferrule will mean a smaller diameter outer...
Thanks
Simon