Action Group Meeting - cycling deaths caused by lorries

EVERYONE PLEASE READ THIS:
One week ago we had a fantastic meeting; it would not have been possible without this forum and the initiative of Ktee.
Not all the participants, at the meeting, are on the FGS forum. We agreed to establish a specific communication system for the LGS Action Group. To date; very few people have signed up for the new email list(s).
If we do not get the action group launched we will be of no effect.
Can everyone who wants to be envolved please go to this link:
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thank you
Gerry

PS. I have just joined the FGS forum in order to post the above; so an introduction is in order: I am only an intruder in so far as I have a derailleur on my bike (531 frame; Mavic wheels etc. built for me in 1990). I have cycled London for over 30 years. I've been under a car and immobilised for 6 months and last year I lost one of my dearest friends (Marie Vesco) who was killed as she cycled to Brighton. I have done my best to be alongside Ktee since she lost Eilidh and I was on the ride to remember Eilidh back in the spring.

-for the list of ways lorries can get you, I've experienced "Lorry comes up at roundabout and forgets you are there". That's why the FTA "dont get into a lorries blind spot" comment sucks, because what if its the lorry that chooses to put you there.

-Regarding near misses, they are something you need to not only get data on, but get the polis enforcing. Anyone who works in HSE/risk management loves near-misses, as they give you more data on where the problems lie. Every non-fatal bike/lorry collision is data, but any incident where you, on a bike, think that a lorry nearly hit you, is data too.

-One interesting topic that's being discussed in the Bristol cycling groups is can we expect better treatment from "professional" drivers -bus, taxi, lorry- and if so, how do we go about it. Complaining to bus, taxi and lorry companies/council seems like a good tactic, but also some leafletting to the professionals "this is a bike lane, this is an ASL, please stay out of them" may be in order. Good test for sprinting skills.

hi all,

little comment (re stats):

1. i am an epidemiologist
   
2. i'm in the process of finishing off an analysis of cycling fatalities in london (along with some others). although you may think otherwise, this has been a big project and we've been working on it for the past 2 years. i am hoping to have some published results in the next couple of months and i'm working on it as fast as possible - but it does take time (unfortunately).
   
3. yes, the dataset is called STATS19. there are lots of problems with it which make it difficult to analyse. indeed, any data about travel/transport is hard to analyse (maybe i should just say any data!). there's also some other information that i have amassed and i hope to share with people via the wiki - but, as you'd expect, this all takes time.
   
4. i currently have 2 or 3 different jobs, so time is not something i have in abundance.
   
5. i am very grateful to some of the people on this forum who have contacted me with advice and/or suggestions regarding the posts i have made related to cycling safety in this and other threads
   
6. i'm already on the "enforcement/data" mailing list (i signed up as soon as i found out about it) - but so far i think there's only been one post. i'd encourage people to use the resources that velocio has made available (i.e. the wiki and the mailing list) as they are a better format for gather information together than this forum.
   
   

i guess that's about it for now, i have to go to bed, but if people are interested in discussing this with me further, please use the mailing list or pm me directly if you'd rather discuss in private.

regards,

   --d0cA

More on stats. I am not convinced that analysing killed is the way forward. The numbers are so low as to be statistically insignificant, plus the key witness is not able to give their own account.

I think a more fruitful approach would be to look at KSI. Much bigger numbers.

Interestingly, stats from the MET Motorcycle Tasking Team show that around half of all KSI for P2W (powered 2 wheel) in London involve a vehicle turning right across the path of the rider.

This suggests that even changing cyclist behaviour, in terms of which side to pass LGVs and other vehicles, may not solve the problem entirely without changing driver behaviour as well.

I'm trying to pull together lots of information that I hope to post up on the seemesaveme wiki shortly.

Interestingly, stats from the MET Motorcycle Tasking Team show that around half of all KSI for P2W (powered 2 wheel) in London involve a vehicle turning right across the path of the rider.

This suggests that even changing cyclist behaviour, in terms of which side to pass LGVs and other vehicles, may not solve the problem entirely without changing driver behaviour as well.

Ah. Well, that is what a lot of us have been saying for a while.

Ah. Well, that is what a lot of us have been saying for a while.

Yep, it's always good to have some stats to back it up.

hey, i'd like to join the campaign group... specifically the direct action group... I have been involved in direct actions and have some connections with groups that may be willing to support the campaign. If you are looking for more people to join please let me know when and where is the next meeting and i will hopefully join you... (i ride quite a bit but haven't met anyone from the forum as i am a little self-conscious - I ride with brakes! :-/ ) x

io78,
please join the direct action mailing list:
http://triton.londonfgss.com/mailman/listinfo/directaction-wg

EVERYONE ELSE:
Please join the list(s) appropriate to your commitments:
http://www.seemesaveme.com/wiki/index.php/Mailing_Lists
Please use the mailing lists as this allows the groups to change members over time and for the emails to be archived.

thanks

Gerry

thanks for the info...
i have just read above the comments on statistics.... Under the FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT any company under the public authorities can be requested to supply information to us (public). We can contact the police or NHS and ask them about the info we would like to have regarding the accidents/fatalities (if they collect the info then they are obliged to share it if we ask about it)
see more on
http://www.ico.gov.uk/what_we_cover/freedom_of_information.aspx

Anothereye, i see you knew Marie.... i was in Brighton on the day, one of the many waiting to join us in the park... i'm sorry for your loss

so as I try to create this:http://www.lfgss.com/thread41724.html
I was pointed in this direction by Balki, esq.
Is the Action Group still active?
Would, as suggested by Balki, we be able to produce a united face for this ride, and PR/ events afterwards?
Henry

It hasn't been active. I think it could do with another meeting. There's always lots of work going on, though, through the LCC-convened HGV Group, for instance, and the LCC also has a dedicated HGV campaigner (charlie_lcc). People who helped start this group are involved in some of this work.

oliver- next week are you free for a chat? is there a LCC headquarters?
H

The office is in SE1. I could certainly meet sometime next week.

was it 11 incidents last year?
middle of feb and there have been at least 4?
not good.

(serious incidents not just fatalities)

You can never judge on one year alone. In 2004, there were only 8 fatalities, bookended by years with more. The last couple of years, fatalities have been declining, but it's entirely possible that this year will have more again. Fingers crossed that that doesn't happen at all.

The office is in SE1. I could certainly meet sometime next week.

Hi, did you guys meet up? Did the ride ever happen? Sorry, think I was off radar then.

Stuff on Radio4 You and Yours yesterday about punishing cyclists on the pavement, and sthg on R4 Womens Hr the day before about girls get killed because they hang back and are not as assertive. What Bllx. Im writing to them.
Your final list of deaths is really helpful. Ive spent ages getting that together to find youd already done it. We need a spreadsheet with more info for each incident, so we can see patterns, so when people publically make presumptions and ill-informed comments, we can respond.

Hi Kate--no, we never did.

There is so much misinformation out there that every bit of correction helps. Well done.

This organisation seems to have interesting resources and a mapping thing (IT illiterate) on their website. Hope someone here finds it helpful.

http://transalt.org/files/newsroom/streetbeat/2011/Oct/1027.html