Action Group Meeting - cycling deaths caused by lorries

removed. confusing.

Right, the domain has been purchased, and it may be temporary (pending a name for the action group or such thing).

Point your browsers to SeeMeSaveMe.com later tonight or tomorrow.

Note: The name has been selected quickly, if it proves to be a bad choice we'll change it. But it will do for now.

sorry to have missed this after putting my name to it, late finish from work, but will be looking for what happens next.

Brilliant V. Let me know if I can help with anything.

This won't be organised on LFGSS.

I've got a communications plan and it's being put into action over the next day or two.

Essentially there is going to be 1 website that does this:
1) For the supporters/followers or those interested... a public front page informs them of key things that have happened, press, lobbying, etc.
2) For the supporters/followers or those interested... an email list in which "news" announcements will be posted.
3) For those involved in the action group and working groups a Wiki (same as Wikipedia) will allow all of the information to be gathered and managed.
4) For those involved in the action group and working groups, a number of email lists will be created to allow for the discussion/organisation to take place... anything that gets agreed should be put into the wiki so that it becomes public

So it's pretty simple, if you're involved and active you communicate and work in your small groups via email, which everyone already has, and via the Wiki when you need to share and work on things.

If your role is simply a support, someone willing to help with lobbying, spreading the word, etc... then you just subscribe to the RSS of the blog and there will be an "announce" email list that lets you know when that gets updated, etc.

Communications will be kept simples, and this will be put in place very soon.

We need to remember that not everyone is on LFGSS, not everyone is fluent with discussion forums and web 2.0 applications, and the technology is second to getting things done.

So with that in mind... simple tools that people know brought together to get things done.

Right, the domain has been purchased, and it may be temporary (pending a name for the action group or such thing).

Point your browsers to SeeMeSaveMe.com later tonight or tomorrow.

Note: The name has been selected quickly, if it proves to be a bad choice we'll change it. But it will do for now.

good call.

Right in terms of lists (we love lists):

· Direct Action Group – demos, protest, rides, stickers, public awareness, promoting cause
1)

· *PR/ Design/Comms *- T-shirts, events, armbands, rides, stickers, website, forum, wiki...
1)

· Media/Film – producing film
1)

· Lobbying - pushing policy, MPs, govt
1)

· Data/Enforcement/Legal – location of collision spots, data collected at collision - collate and present to show trends and use as communication tool. Legal hurdles/solutions - enforcing new restrictions/requirements.
1)

Helpful / not helpful?

Sorry I missed last night, 6 was too early for me. hope it went well. Do we just add our names to the group we want to be a part of?

@^ read post 277.

Sorry, I was absent also, just missed a train back from Brighton after a photoshoot, got back at 7!!
Have read the above, will check the website.

Magic stuff DK.

Right, I've written up the notes from the Direct Action group, and emailed them to Kate. If anyone wants to pledge their allegiance right away, or has ideas, please email me on emilychappell (at sign) yahoo dot co dot uk. Probably useful if you include something about your skills, contacts, etc. We'll be particularly in need to people to help design stickers, flyers, and possibly websites - I think all the designer types are in another group. But the unskilled, brainless and imbecilic are welcome too - we'll need all the help we can get!

The website is now setup, but there is virtually no content.

I'll have the mailing lists setup this morning, and then people can start to signup and do stuff.

Nice to see the Freight Transport Association seem to think it's all our fault/responsibility. Grr.

Did anyone pick up the printed list of attendees names and email adds on Tuesday? If you did can you send it to me or Kate. I can pick it up from you or you could scan and mail it.

cheers

Fuckers... they don't use the bloody mirrors they have. You could wear all day-glo stuff and still be flattened by them.

Grrr.

Did anyone pick up the printed list of attendees names and email adds on Tuesday? If you did can you send it to me or Kate. I can pick it up from you or you could scan and mail it.

cheers

I think (male) Gerry must have picked that up. Not 100% sure, though. Don't know if he's on the forum.

Fuckers... they don't use the bloody mirrors they have. You could wear all day-glo stuff and still be flattened by them.

Grrr.

Like it or not, they do have a point tho.

It is up to us to look after ourselves. If we as cyclists don't put ourselves in vulnerable positions (up the inside or in front of a hgv/bus/whatever indicating or not) they can't get us. It's that simple

Yes they have mirrors, but they don't want to squash us and they don't try either. They just have to be looking in the wrong direction for a second when a cyclist goes up their inside into their blind spot and through no fault of their own a cyclist has put themselves in a dangerous position, and the driver is non the wiser.

It's people like this: we all need to help:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03GGcZ8dA8c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-lZPeAWye4

The website is now setup, but there is virtually no content.

I'll have the mailing lists setup this morning, and then people can start to signup and do stuff.

how do you add to it?

OK, so I've setup the mailing lists, but haven't tested them.

You'll find info on the Wiki: http://www.seemesaveme.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

Especially here:
http://www.seemesaveme.com/wiki/index.php/Mailing_Lists

Everyone should join the LGV-News mailing list, and everyone who is involved should join the LGV-Discuss mailing list.

Additionally if you are involved in one of the working groups, you should join the mailing list applicable to that.

Usage:

LGV-News just sends out updates to the world... it's the public face and it'll be used by someone from the Media working groups to keep the world up to date with progress. No-one else can email this list.

LGV-Discuss is an umbrella discussion list in which everyone can chat. But to make it work well it really should be a representative of each working group feeding progress back into the whole action group rather than a common free-for-all.

The working group lists are the free-for-all discussions. You should self-organise your working group and use the wiki and mailing list to keep everyone in the working group informed and on track.

I'll add the LGV-News one to the blog so that it's public. Please start signing up, and promoting the use of this set of resources to those helping out.

Maybe I'm being a bit thick here, but the link just directs to:
http://81.21.76.62/seemesaveme.com/index.html

ok played around, it makes sense. but i can't add wiki pages?
I want to list all the current HGV fatalities, link to the london map and put up memorial ride details.. Mm i'll keep testing

Maybe I'm being a bit thick here, but the link just directs to:
http://81.21.76.62/seemesaveme.com/index.html

Your DNS hasn't yet updated... so you're seeing the holding page.

Just give it a day, it will appear.

ok played around, it makes sense. but i can't add wiki pages?
I want to list all the current HGV fatalities, link to the london map and put up memorial ride details.. Mm i'll keep testing

It's definitely working... just register on the Wiki and login, you should be able to do stuff.

I've no idea if this would be a suitable platform for what people have planned, but here are some details:

This is a great arena to go and pester Boris.

I have registered for six tickets. They are free.

Like it or not, they do have a point tho.

It is up to us to look after ourselves. If we as cyclists don't put ourselves in vulnerable positions (up the inside or in front of a hgv/bus/whatever indicating or not) they can't get us. It's that simple

Yes they have mirrors, but they don't want to squash us and they don't try either. They just have to be looking in the wrong direction for a second when a cyclist goes up their inside into their blind spot and through no fault of their own a cyclist has put themselves in a dangerous position, and the driver is non the wiser.

"I think this reply is most important because it states current Transport for London policy. Note that their answer is to stick signs on the back of lorries saying 'don't go up the inside'. Two things wrong with this, in the view of the LBMA. One, the LBMA had already devoted considerable efforts to raising awareness of the 6 London bicycle messengers killed by HGVs, having twice painted the roads with their names and also publicised their cases in the programme distributed free at 2003 ECMC, which Sebastian would have received, BEFORE Sebastian was killed. Two, there is no mention of extra training, education or equipment for the HGV drivers.

The LBMA accepts that cyclists have a duty to preserve their own lives. However, we feel that HGV operators also have a duty of care to make sure that their drivers are made aware of the fatal danger that their vehicles threaten cyclists with; that they are also made aware of the frequency with which HGVs kill cyclists in London; and that they are given all possible equipment and training to avoid these fatal accidents in the future. Until such time as the HGV operators take these measures, the LBMA does not feel that they have earned the right to share the road with our members...

...we doubt that the initiative in its current form will contribute to a reduction in the threat to cyclists from HGVs. The initiative, which amounts to putting signs on HGVs advising cyclists not to pass them on the left, could be seen as encouraging HGV drivers to believe that they do not have a duty of care for other road users. 'It's their responsibility to stay out of my way, not my responsibility to look out for them'.

The LBMA fully accepts that all road users are responsible for their own safety. However, we believe that all road users are responsible for the safety of the road users around them. This initiative does not appear to conform to this simple dictum, for the reasons given above.

 In 2003, the LBMA organised two separate memorial rides, one on the occasion of the 2003 European Cycle Messenger Championships hosted by the LBMA and on 9th October, which is International Bicycle Messenger Appreciation Day, which visited the sites at which the previous six London bicycle messengers have been killed by collisions with HGVs. We are committed to remembering our fallen comrades, and trying to reduce the chance of fatal or near-fatal collisions involving HGVs and cyclists in London. We know that this type of collision is almost unknown in some Northern European cities, which shows that this type of collision is not inevitable. We therefore expect the operators to make efforts as strenuous as our own, and convince us, those who are at risk, that these efforts are more than the usual cursory attempt to convince public officials that self-regulation is sufficient.
 Therefore, I believe that this initiative could only be acceptable to the LBMA if it was accompanied by substantial investments of both money and time in HGV driver education and re-equipment of the vehicles with more mirrors. Written assurances from the operators that this investment in training and equipment was actually taking place would be welcome news."

I wrote this 5 years ago. Since then, some hauliers have taken on what I suggested. However, lots of them still have heaps to do, as evidenced by the fact that in at least 2 fatalities mirrors had been removed.

Also, to say that all the deaths and injuries could have been avoided by the cyclists is just plain ignorant. There were, apparently, no witnesses to Eilidh's death. She was killed when she was on the right, in the outside lane. There are a number of possible scenarios in which Eilidh could only avoided the collision by not using that road at all. Effri was hit by a truck entering his lane across a double white line, ie Effri had right of way, and was hit by a truck turning right out of side road. Conrad Dutoit was killed in the Pancras Way bike lane by a right turning lorry. The lorry driver who killed him, Mr Ibrahim, was found guilty of ‘Driving Without Due Care And Attention’ (ie he didn’t look before turning) and ‘Driving Other Than In Accordance With A Licence’ (ie he wasn’t licensed to drive the category of lorry that he crushed Conrad to death with), fined £500, plus £250 costs and disqualified for 56 days.

For sure, some of the deaths and injuries were the result of left turns by the lorries. But by no means all.