Brooks quality control

My inner weight weenie would'nt let me have a Brooks. So I went for a Selle Italia Storika, to get the brown leather look with a lighter, and cheaper saddle. The leather is apparantly thinner, but It really seems to be holding up excellently. More importantly, I find it super comfy even on longer fixed rides. Problem is, I think they've discontinued then (Noooooo!). If I see some around I'm going to stock up on them, for when the one I'm using bits it, and for some other bikes.

I cant quite understand how they can justify discontinuing them when the success of brooks clearly shows a market.

right. i can shed a little bit of light on this. it's true that a brooks saddle that you buy today is not as good as one made 20 years ago. the saddle is constructed exactly the same, on the same machines, using the same hardware, with the same care and attention, and taking the same amount of time.

what's changed is the leather. leather is a by-product of the meat industry. from what i understand, cattle farmers are under increasing pressure to bring their cows to market quicker, meaning they are fed hormones and slaughtered earlier. this means thinner, weaker leather. if you compare the thickness of the leather that's available nowadays, it's visibly thinner than oldschool leather (up to 1mm thinner in some cases). it's not a problem limited to brooks; the entire leather industry has changed.

Presumably the higher quality stuff is still available, though - just that it's more expensive? Maybe I'm being naive, but I'm surprised Brooks haven't introduced some sort of 'premium' brand which uses thicker leather. There must be a reasonable market of people who are prepared to pay for a saddle that will last a lifetime, rather than until they're old enough to drive a car.

what's changed is the leather. leather is a by-product of the meat industry. from what i understand, cattle farmers are under increasing pressure to bring their cows to market quicker, meaning they are fed hormones and slaughtered earlier. this means thinner, weaker leather.

That does make sense, even though, at least in the video clip, the Brooks' representative, if I remember correctly, said that they still use 5mm strong parts of the hide.

I've been raising a cow in my garden for over 8 years, I apply proofride to him after every rainfall and I have had to tension his nose ring twice.

What about the hides of those cows that are feed beer and massaged to produce luxury meat. That gotta be some quality leather right there.

what's changed is the leather. leather is a by-product of the meat industry. from what i understand, cattle farmers are under increasing pressure to bring their cows to market quicker, meaning they are fed hormones and slaughtered earlier. this means thinner, weaker leather. if you compare the thickness of the leather that's available nowadays, it's visibly thinner than oldschool leather (up to 1mm thinner in some cases). it's not a problem limited to brooks; the entire leather industry has changed.

Now that shed a lots of light on why the leather aren't the same as it was, the difference between the leather from 4 years ago and now is staggering (on my B17).

Now that shed a lots of light on why the leather aren't the same as it was, the difference between the leather from 4 years ago and now is staggering (on my B17).
But the farming practices Teddy mentions have been around for much longer than 4 years, so I don't think the difference between your two saddles can be put down to that.

i bought my first brooks about a month ago, and its a lot more comfortable than the race saddle i had. it took about 2 weeks as well to break in, and then needed more tensioning than you would have thought. The saddle was originally honey now it looks like the dark brown model and has decided to take on some of my jeans' colour.It was proofrided as suggested, but quite surprised how quickly it has actually changed in appearance. is it supposed to discolour so quickly?

Yes.

My inner weenie wouldn't let me have a Brooks.

because of the frottage?

When's the ideal time to tension a Brooks then?

Also, I've just measured mine (less than 5 years old) with Vernier calipers and we're talking 4.5/5mm leather thickness. So, same as ever surely?

When's the ideal time to tension a Brooks then?

Under the full moon

My inner weight weenie would'nt let me have a Brooks. So I went for a Selle Italia Storika, to get the brown leather look with a lighter, and cheaper saddle. The leather is apparantly thinner, but It really seems to be holding up excellently. More importantly, I find it super comfy even on longer fixed rides. Problem is, I think they've discontinued then (Noooooo!). If I see some around I'm going to stock up on them, for when the one I'm using bits it, and for some other bikes.

I cant quite understand how they can justify discontinuing them when the success of brooks clearly shows a market.

dude, i noticed that on your bike from a picture of you doing that epic climb in norway (i think). love the storika but they are very rare now. i am on my fourth which i got secondhand from a mate. alas, it is a plain black one so though it has the feel i love it doesn't look as nice. have had three like yours, they all lasted different lengths of time due to crashes and scrapes.

i have a brooks on my polo bike. i have nothing bad to say about it. i also enjoyed the tour of the factory a couple of months ago and love the fact they use such old fashioned methods. i can imagine the quality of the hide can vary a bit though and Teddy has given a good explanation of that above

Under the full moon

Naked?

they still only use the thickest part of the hide, and i know they use the best grade vegetable-tanned leather that they can get in bulk (which i realise differs from the best grade leather that is available in small batches). with brooks, i honestly do trust that they're producing the best saddles that they can make. they don't cut corners and they don't skimp on quality for the sake of price... they wouldn't do that because there's no need for them to do that. i like that about them.

i dont use brooks on any of my main rides as i dont find them all that comfortable, but i have an origional on my 50s raleigh roadster. the leather is alot thicker than anything ive seen on the modern versions.

Are we confusing this whole thicker leather question on older saddles with natural build-up of arse-clak?

When's the ideal time to tension a Brooks then?

I was 16 stones when I have my old B17, I end up tensioning the saddle after 2 years.

I shouldn't need to tension it after a month on the current one, the leather is defintely weaker.

I'm never sure how tight the bolt should be.

Conclusive - you've become too light Ed, you need to put more weight on to correctly tension your saddle!

How's it going with the Aliante by the way?

I was 16 stones when I have my old B17, I end up tensioning the saddle after 2 years.

I shouldn't need to tension it after a month on the current one, the leather is defintely weaker.

BrookS QC is amazingly high.

Leather is thinner because the cows are bred to gain as much weight as possible. Leather is just a by product of the meat industry

same problem with pork and crackling. Indoor raised pigs have thinner skin and less fat hence they are terrible for roasting.

+1 on what Teddy's been saying. They don't skimp on quality, but are dependent on the vaguaries of a natural product, despite excellent skills in selection of materials. I think there are only two tanneries in europe that have the hide they need, so they're limited by what they can get. I would say: never buy a hide saddle on the internet, they vary a lot.

Ed's saddle: I reckon if you're not happy, brooks will re-cover it with a new hide for you. Not a lot of people know that they repair saddles all the time. Get in touch with them again if they don't respond, with a specific request for re-covering. They might even use the Team Pro hide (see below) for your B17 if you asked nicely.

Possible reasons for needing to tension the saddle too early:

Too much proofide. (Once a month max til it softens a bit, then once a year. If it's already soft, don't put more than one layer of proofide on, and only a little.)
No proofide underneath and a few heavy soakings + long ish rides.
Tensioning whilst damp, perhaps.
Buying a B17. You should have got the Team Professional. It's not true that there's no difference in the hide used on different saddles. The very thickest part (the arse) is reserved for the Team Pro. They're the best.

Nice discount on the Storika here

I have now got Brooks saddles on all my bikes. I have tried several Selle Italia saddles and they just hurt. Even the Flite. My bum is just not that shape I guess.

My Raleigh Superbe has a 10 years old (?) Champion Flyer (B17 with springs, basically) which is without a doubt the most comfortable saddle I have ever used. No idea of the exact age but it was pretty old before I got the bike several years ago.
The blue Quinn has a year old B17 which almost rivals the Flyer for comfort.
The Steve Goff has a new chopped B17.
The red Quinn has a new Swallow.

I haven't noticed any difference between the quality of the leather, the comfort, the thickness or anything. The decade old one and the brand new ones. They are all excellent. I guess different hides just have different qualities, which only become apparent with age and use.