Accident London Bridge

@ Stradam "Its also too far and too much damage caused by the bike for it to be doing only 30."

Sorry that's just not true. I've snapped a motorbike in half hitting a car at about 20mph, side on. I've had many, many motorbike crashes and it's a fact that modern bikes spray plastic everywhere even in a 15mph slide.

Simple fact from the photo; the bike didn't travel far once over the reservation and remained largely intact. If it had been doing much more than 30, let alone 50 or 70, it would, in my opinion either have travelled a hell of a lot further or sustained a lot more damage.

I usually never contribute in these threads but assuming that just because a motorbike was involved means the rider was speeding and at fault is really counterproductive to road awareness. It only enforces an already stale stereotype that motorcyclists are the cause of their own accidents and discounts the unpleasant truth that the vast majority of accidents involving both Motorbikes and Cycles in London have nothing to do with speed and everything to do with 'sorry mate, didn't see you'.....

@ Stradam "Its also too far and too much damage caused by the bike for it to be doing only 30."

Sorry that's just not true. I've snapped a motorbike in half hitting a car at about 20mph, side on. I've had many, many motorbike crashes and it's a fact that modern bikes spray plastic everywhere even in a 15mph slide.

Simple fact from the photo; the bike didn't travel far once over the reservation and remained largely intact. If it had been doing much more than 30, let alone 50 or 70, it would, in my opinion either have travelled a hell of a lot further or sustained a lot more damage.

I usually never contribute in these threads but assuming that just because a motorbike was involved means the rider was speeding and at fault is really counterproductive to road awareness. It only enforces an already stale stereotype that motorcyclists are the cause of their own accidents and discounts the unpleasant truth that the vast majority of accidents involving both Motorbikes and Cycles in London have nothing to do with speed and everything to do with 'sorry mate, didn't see you'.....

+1

I see motorcyclists going at dangerous speeds on London roads nearly every day. I see drivers driving irresponsibly too. And cyclists doing utterly stupid things too.

The point being, you get idiots using all modes of transport.

Does anyone know if LB and the surrounding is back open now? The road and the footpaths?

"The accident raises further concerns about the safety of cyclists on London roads. Lorry drivers were today being given free mirrors to help them see cyclists in their blindspots."

What the fuck is this?

Motorbike crashes, flies through air into cyclist and it's cycling that's dangerous? Idiofucks.

The rider in question, who is OK, is called John, who came on the track session I organised a couple of weeks ago that some of you came to. Small world

There is a hell of a lot of internet supposition on this thread, more so than usual.

Clivo has it bang on.

The rider in question, who is OK, is called John, who came on the track session I organised a couple of weeks ago that some of you came to. Small world

And what did you teach him to do if a flying motorbike was approaching him at speed?

And what did you teach him to do if a flying motorbike was approaching him at speed?

Rob gave a select few of us a session about that on Wimbledon Common one spring Sunday morning. I've not been hit by a motor bike since.

Glad to hear he is OK, really glad.

it has cheered me up a great deal to learn everyone is okay.

swearing this much in a post, is it really needed? when really you don't have much to say as blaming the bus driver, given that there are limited facts, is about as intelligent as blaming a cute boy/girl wearing short shorts for distracting the cyclist who swerved in front of the cat that distracted the motorcyclist who happened to be going at 60+mph....but yes must have been fucking bus drivers fucking fault

Do you know that piece of road well?
I live less than a mile from there and have ridden through it god knows how many times.
The manoeuvre that the bus has clearly carried out, is a common one sadly from that bus stop a driver can either go straight on or pull out into another lane, he has pulled out into the lane next to him, many (although not all) of the drivers pull out of the stop like this on a daily basis often without any indication expecting cars/bikes/whoever to give way to them.
It is extremely dangerous to do this, consider that most traffic is coming into this section from around what is effectively a blind corner, so if they pull out they are simply hoping that whatever comes round that corner is going to stop suddenly and give way to them, it drives me crazy because the amount of times it nearly results in a crash is ridiculous, maybe if they properly penalize this driver all the others will think twice about being performing this stupid move.
Maybe the swearing was excessive, but so is my frustration with this situation, ride down there a few times and you'll see what I mean, the bus driver should not go unpunished for this.

All that aside, i'm really glad to hear the cyclist made it out of this alive, and I hope the motorcyclist pulls through.

James if it's a blind corner the Bus drive can't see back round it nor can the approaching traffic see round it. The approaching traffic, just like the bus should be able to stop too as it is, as you have stated a blind corner.

Your apportioning blame currently is working on the initial assumption that the bus is in the wrong and you play out a possible scenario of what would happen if the bus driver was in the wrong hence your logic leads you that way. You can not tell from the current evidence what was going on. It may be one side fault it may be both.

Stop pontificating so much about the accident.

Do you know that piece of road well?

yes, intimately. but i do agree with your points on the engineering. it is poor but you have the following equation:

lots of buses + lots of turns + history + loads of peds + lots of no-turns + lots of cyclist + lots of regulations + lots of Policy + lots of stakeholders +a new station being buildin a few years + new train line + two high aurthority's + a market + my pet cat + a mayor that has no vision = hard to solve and costs lots of £££'s

Yes its poor design/engineering that causes this place to be dangerous, and its not a simple problem to solve, however its easy enough for the bus drivers to use this stop without unecessarily endangering other road users.
They wait for the bus in front to move, stay in the lane, and then filter across further down, as a few of the "good drivers" do, because they realize the danger of suddenly straddling both lanes in the middle of fast moving traffic with lots of road-users having to slam the brakes on at once, the impatient selfish twats though for some reason....feel that it is necessary to pull out suddenly, often without indicating, into heavy traffic and suddenly block off both lanes whilst they go on their merry way.
I'd be very surprised.....no wait, shocked, if this accident was not at least in part caused by this type of manoeuvre being pulled by the bus driver.....call me cynical.

And what did you teach him to do if a flying motorbike was approaching him at speed?

Leave the track and go onto the grass. (but look over his shoulder first)

"The accident raises further concerns about the safety of cyclists on London roads. Lorry drivers were today being given free mirrors to help them see cyclists in their blindspots."

What the fuck is this?

Motorbike crashes, flies through air into cyclist and it's cycling that's dangerous? Idiofucks.

News article on the TV the other morning regarding cycling accidents saying "many fatalities happen when cyclists collide with HGVs". It angered me that the emphasis there was on the cyclist and not the left-turning lorries, as if cyclists were bumbling about riding under the wheels of HGVs on purpose.

I am glad that it seems that there are no fatalities from the accident today - I went past at about 8.45 and it didn't look good, it upset me a lot and considering what I saw I'm a little cyncical about the cosy-happy-everyone's-fine news reports but I do hope they're true.

pontificating

Have I ever told you how much I like you?

oddly enough I was nearly killed there myself this afternoon - coming down to the stops with bus indicating to cut across into the central lane into stationary traffic - he started to move across and I positioned myself on the outside of the left hand lane to carry on down behind him when he'd completed switching lanes.

then someone waved a hand from the next stop down and the bus swerves straight back to the stops without indicating. I'd be toast if I a) wasn't sensible enough to know NOT to pass stationary traffic on the left and b) wary enough of bus drivers and their seeming belief that size = automatic right of way / amazing ability to override traffic rules.

I've cycled over London Bridge twice a day for 7+ years and seen lots of near misses as well as a couple of rear-end shunts, both involving buses - one going north where they cut across two lanes of traffic and another at the same point as the accident today. Never seen a cyclist hurt though thank god although there have been a few scrapes with people bombing down the inside of the left hand lane southbound (left turn only) and then try and go straight on over the lights (only to be met with the side of a car doing just that across their path.

Glad to hear everyone's ok.

And what did you teach him to do if a flying motorbike was approaching him at speed?

Turn around and try and get behind it?

It is indeed a small world

I only have one way of tackling London Bridge, get in the middle lane and cycle like a bat out of hell until you are at the lights, jump them and sail down through Borough High Street

TBF most of the time the buses on that stretch are going as fast as the slowest bicycle rider...

my rule of thumb is

if its bigger than me stay behind it... if its faster than me keep the fuck out of the way. (that includes you mike)

I'm guessing the bus pulled out because there was another bus in front of it, perhaps one of those fucking stupid open top tour buses stopping to let its passengers get a view of the Monument. I go over this bridge every day. Am always wary of the buses in the bus stop on the left - they are totally unpredictable. Otherwise I cycle in the left lane, and look to move into the middle lane before the traffic stops at the lights. At the lights, aim to be to the right of the middle lane, so that the taxis going into LBS don't become a problem.