Dear Boris, Enough is enough!

A total ban would present difficulties - refuse services at night might be inconvenient, but they are not impossible. And builders can get up earlier and leave later.

Unworkable or not it should be on the table even if it is only as a stick to force the buggers to comply with the mirrors, extra training and side guards. Maybe also proximity sensors, such as you have when parking modern cars, or even cameras giving a clear view of the cyclist-path on the left. It should all be on the table and the lorry operators should be forced to fit as many as practical, or face a total daylight ban.

And a big hard-hitting ad campaign, aimed fairly and squarely at female cyclists, in all the women's magazines (the ones that do the "hey, buy a bike and some pretty summer dresses" features), on TV during all the shows and channels (e.g. Living TV) women like watching saying "stay the fuck away from the inside of trucks"

And another aimed at london truck drivers - saying watch out for cyclists when turning left. Fit more mirrors, open your nearside window and go slowly.

Is it just cyclists? I wonder how many pedestrians and motorcyclists trucks have also killed in London?

I have a question. What, exactly, do we want to be done? I realise we would like to reduce traffic fatalities, but what steps can the government take to help with this.

But as it stands, I'm not so sure I understand what we're after.

This part of the reason I started this thread. I wanted to write a letter to Boris about all these deaths but like you didn't quite know what to say..

And a big hard-hitting ad campaign, aimed fairly and squarely at female cyclists, in all the women's magazines (the ones that do the "hey, buy a bike and some pretty summer dresses" features), on TV during all the shows and channels (e.g. Living TV) women like watching saying "stay the fuck away from the inside of trucks"

And another aimed at london truck drivers - saying watch out for cyclists when turning left. Fit more mirrors, open your nearside window and go slowly.

Is it just cyclists? I wonder how many pedestrians and motorcyclists trucks have also killed in London?

Boris keeps on going on about wanting to increase the numbers of cyclists and I guess he has a budget for his policy. Petitioning him to assign some of that money to produce these sorts of ad campaigns might not be beyond the realms of possibility.

On a slightly different tack, why not suggest a question for Mayor's Question Time?

One area being overlooked here is how many of these accidents were caused by the cyclist putting themselves in a dangerous situation in the first place. I don't know what, if any, data is available but I suspect the answer is a fair portion.

Yes, there is a case for making drivers more aware of cyclists but I'm equally certain that there's a strong case for more training for cyclists. I'm not advocating making it compulsory but certainly readily and freely available and well publicised.

+1
the amount of people i see heading into the abyss with their helmets and hybrids down the lhs of big trucks scares the shit out of me.

When I used to work with amnesty international, we had a standard typed letter that everyone would rewrite by hand and sign separately. I think proper mail (as opposed to email) makes a big difference purely because it's something physical, and the handwriting just makes it seem like you care more.

+1. Special mirrors for HGV's are probably the most cost effective, feasible way of reducing road deaths.

I don't see larger/special mirrors making much of a difference to be honest. Shit, careless drivers are still gonna be shit, careless drivers. Most of these incidents seem to be on bends, corners, blindspots where there driver is in some kind of rush to get through to a straight. Once they have that mindset of 'I need to crack on with my journey/get away from the build up of traffic' that's it, they're only focused on getting from A-B as quickly as possible, that's just the way it is driving in London, not just for HGVs

+1
the amount of people i see heading into the abyss with their helmets and hybrids down the lhs of big trucks scares the shit out of me.

I don't see larger/special mirrors making much of a difference to be honest. Shit, careless drivers are still gonna be shit, careless drivers. Most of these incidents seem to be on bends, corners, blindspots where there driver is in some kind of rush to get through to a straight. Once they have that mindset of 'I need to crack on with my journey/get away from the build up of traffic' that's it, they're only focused on getting from A-B as quickly as possible, that's just the way it is driving in London, not just for HGVs

I don't see how so many of these accidents occur its so obvious that you should be nowhere near trucks and buses at intersections. Maybe a ban on filtering in traffic and strong enforcement is the only way to stop people diving up the inside of large vehicles at intersections and on bends. Obviously this idea is stupid, and there is no way you will find me waiting in a que of traffic for some half awake driver to crush me from behind, but still the amount of bad riding I see every day just astounds me. I think cycling in London can be a very safe and fun activity, even in peak hour and even with HGV around, it takes a bit of experience and concentration to be safe though.

As for the ban on HGVs, you would be amazed at how much effort is put into keeping trucks of the roads during peak hour already. I've worked on some major inner city construction sites and I can assure you that the last thing you want is your concrete trucks stuck in traffic, so all our pours always started early in the day or late at night.

Boris keeps on going on about wanting to increase the numbers of cyclists and I guess he has a budget for his policy. Petitioning him to assign some of that money to produce these sorts of ad campaigns might not be beyond the realms of possibility.

Didn't Boris cut the funding to half toward cycling in London?

These women are not being killed by professional lorry drivers working for transport companies. They are being killed by part-time lorry drivers in construction industry dumper trucks, or council bin wagons

**
And a big hard-hitting ad campaign, **aimed fairly and squarely at female cyclists, in all the women's magazines (the ones that do the "hey, buy a bike and some pretty summer dresses" features), on TV during all the shows and channels (e.g. Living TV) women like watching saying "stay the fuck away from the inside of trucks"

That's pretty fucking patronising.

http://www.movingtargetzine.com/article/chinese-whispers-female-cyclists-killed-by-hgvlgvs-in-london-1999-2004

I doubt he intended it to sound patrionising, generally from what I understand, female cyclists tend to cycle safety (safety in term of following the highway code etc.), and seeing those green line approaching the ASL did little to prevent their untimely death.

I doubt it's the fact they're women, just the ASL gave them the illusion that it's safe to undertake vehicles when approaching the ASL;

I doubt he intended it to sound patrionising, generally from what I understand, female cyclists tend to cycle safety (safety in term of following the highway code etc.), and seeing those green line approaching the ASL did little to prevent their untimely death.

I doubt it's the fact they're women, just the ASL gave them the illusion that it's safe to undertake vehicles when approaching the ASL.

There's a bit of a contradiction there between 'female cyclists tend to cycle safety' and 'I doubt it's the fact they're women'. Have a read of the stats on that link and it's not so easy to generalise/stereotype as all that.

No slight on either of you; it's a commonly held belief, but I think it's a fairy lazy one – and one which feeds in to a stereotype of females as risk-averse etc etc.

you're right it's probably a stereotype, perhaps I just somehow only see females cyclists rarely jump the red light as oppose to the other sexes who appear to be more of an RLJ frequencer (and I always tend to stop at red lights thus being able to observe this).

I stop at red lights in the main, but I am also a very assertive cyclist in general.

I know that some women are nervous cyclists – but not all of us are, and keeping on saying it somehow perpetuates the myth that cycing is masculine somehow, which is obviously bollocks… :)

That link is interesting as to the HGV stats which are often repeated.

I don't see larger/special mirrors making much of a difference to be honest. Shit, careless drivers are still gonna be shit, careless drivers. Most of these incidents seem to be on bends, corners, blindspots where there driver is in some kind of rush to get through to a straight. Once they have that mindset of 'I need to crack on with my journey/get away from the build up of traffic' that's it, they're only focused on getting from A-B as quickly as possible, that's just the way it is driving in London, not just for HGVs

I know it ain't perfect but it's the best solution on the table. A total ban during certain hours is just not practical, what with the olympics coming up, also the construction industry has been particularly badly hit by the recession. Cycle training is a nice idea but also equally impractical, there are millions and millions of bikes - getting everyone trained up would be a logistical nightmare.

I know that some women are nervous cyclists – but not all of us are, and keeping on saying it somehow perpetuates the myth that cycing is masculine somehow, which is obviously bollocks… :)

Ahh don't worry, I'm just fuelling the well known myth that men have penis envy and need to risk their inept live by RLJing.

Ahh don't worry, I'm just fuelling the well known myth that men have penis envy and need to risk their inept live by RLJing.

Ha!

That's pretty fucking patronising.

Plus several million.

Fortunately I only do my ridiculously small field of statistics/completely biased because of the variance in experience in cyclists/totally unnhelpful because it puts women off cycling and makes everything worse rant at the pub and try very hard to keep it off the forum.

But really. ffs.

I don't see larger/special mirrors making much of a difference to be honest. Shit, careless drivers are still gonna be shit, careless drivers. Most of these incidents seem to be on bends, corners, blindspots where there driver is in some kind of rush to get through to a straight. Once they have that mindset of 'I need to crack on with my journey/get away from the build up of traffic' that's it, they're only focused on getting from A-B as quickly as possible, that's just the way it is driving in London, not just for HGVs

i get the feeling that lots of these crashes happen because people ride into/get caught in the blindspot. It doesn't matter how careful a driver you are, if as a cyclist you can't see the drivers face in his mirror, he can't see you. Yes i think a way needs to be found so that people don't cycle down the lhs of trucks but if at the same time we can mandate the reduction/elimination of a trucks blind spot both efforts combined will save lives.

And yes, careless drivers will always be a menace but the more that can be done to reduce the possible "i didn't see them" style excuses will force motorists to get better.
Maybe i'm being optimistic but i have to believe there is something we can do to make the roads safer, because frankly the number of rider down threads is beginning to really scare and depress me.

I doubt he intended it to sound patrionising, generally from what I understand, female cyclists tend to cycle safety (safety in term of following the highway code etc.), and seeing those green line approaching the ASL did little to prevent their untimely death.

I doubt it's the fact they're women, just the ASL gave them the illusion that it's safe to undertake vehicles when approaching the ASL;

You need to enforce the advanced stop line, on the spot fines for cars creeping into the ASL cycle safe area.

Here is a money generating idea for TFL/local councils:

You need to enforce the advanced stop line, on the spot fines for cars creeping into the ASL cycle safe area.

Here is a money generating idea for TFL/local councils:

hahah YES tynan that is gold.

why the fuck not?

That's pretty fucking patronising.

http://www.movingtargetzine.com/article/chinese-whispers-female-cyclists-killed-by-hgvlgvs-in-london-1999-2004

Yes it probably is. But experienced cyclists don't tend to be the ones killed. From what I see it's mostly the novices on their new dutch bikes who trust in cycle lanes rather than their own wits. When Cosmo or whatever does another 'cycling tribes' article and another load of their readers take up cycling for the first time in years I want there to be proper road safety advice - not "wearing a helmet and hi-vis will make you invulnerable"

Hmmm on Friday evening on the way home from work I caught a police car waiting at the traffic lights three quaters parked in the ASL at the junction of Royal College St and Kentish Town Rd. Not a very good example to set I would have thought !

ASLs are ridiculous. The cycle lanes leading to them encourage people to undertake, nobody obeys them, any sensible cyclist rides straight past them and if he or she is stopping at all should stop as far ahead as possible so as to get a good view of the pedestrian and vehicle traffic.

I seriously think that if they just got rid of all the ASLs but kept the driver's stop lines as far back as the ASLs have moved them the problem would be solved. Cars would just stop at the line.