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Jokes like this arent funny to me, they make me want to punch cuntards in the face. Sorry but jokes like this are VERY old
I appologise.
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I appologise.
To ed too. -
OK not read the whole thread but I thought I would tell you a story
back in 2003 I traveled around South America both solo and with my ex girlfriend. While in the peruvian desert in a place called Huacachina my girlfriend got Salmonella poisoning. She collapsed through lack of liquids and I found her unconcious on the toilet floor. I carried her half a mile to the nearest taxi where we rushed to the local Hospital.
Before we were even seen by a doctor I had to pay a fee, this was basically paying for the doctors time to see me. Once he had done his initial check over he handed me a list of things which included :
IV drip x 2
Needles
tubes
medicine
etc...I then had to pay to rent a room for a day and take the list of things to a counter where I had to pay cash to get the supplies needed to treat her. She was treated and recovered, however while at the hospital there was a car crash outside and a child was bought into the hospital with severe facial lacirations and bleeding from one of his ears. The hospital turned the mother away who was hysterically holding her bleeding child, she could not afford the medicine to treat her child and had to travel ten miles to the nearest free clinic if she wanted treatment.
I also met a woman in Bolivia who's son haf apendicitus something my sister has just been through. The operation to remove the apendix costs around $125 US dollars and she could not afford this, so instead had got pregnant with another child to replace the one that was inevitably going to die.
I will never complain about our healthcare in this country and dont understand people that do, what we have is free and saves millions of lives every year, you cannot expect an organisation which is incredibly stretched financially and equipment wise to operate a perfect service, we should be grateful for what we have.
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As a biaised (non-medical) employee of the NHS I'd impartially observe that the best treatment in the USA is still better than here but it's only accessible to the ones who can pay.
So a better average level of care for everyone with a much lower % spent per $/£ on admin and overheads.
Great Ormond Street Hospital is cutting edge, and the Americans, Russians, French and Japanese medical establishments all learn from ground broken there.
Doctor Magdi Yacoub practised here, for the NHS also. I won't go further, or I'll become argumentative.
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Many of you know that my girlfriend has a history of spinal problems. She was born with very severe scoliosis (spinal curvature) and has had to put up with the effects of both that and her earlier treatment ever since. We have been at the sharp end of the NHS constantly for 10 years
Whilst the NHS has provided treatment all her life, and certainly to a better level than Ireland has provided some of her friends with the same condition for example, it has made the whole thing a bureaucratic nightmare. Leaving aside the filthy and poorly maintained hospitals, the out-of-date drugs and procedures (because providing the latest stuff is more expensive), the sheer bloody-minded bureaucracy of the NHS is staggeringly stupid. It is the bureaucracy that makes the NHS so expensive and inefficient. For example, My girlfriend had to register with a doctor in Shropshire and spend half the year up there because our local one in Tower Hamlets is snowed under with dole scroungers. TH will not pay for her drugs, nor much of her treatment. On being told by TH that she could not see the specialist who had treated her all her life we then had to wait a year and a half to be referred to a specialist of their choosing, who promptly said he could do nothing and referred her to the original specialist after all. We then had to wait another year or more for the operation. Which took place in a hospital so filthy and horrible that I'm surprised anyone survived.
Last year when after several visits to several specialists who diagnosed all sorts of shite that had nothing to do with her real problem (e.g. "you have chronic pain syndrome - take anti-depressants and painkillers" as opposed to the real solution: "you have a collapsed disc - we will operate") we got fed up of being moved from pillar to post and she went straight to the best scoliosis consultant in the country. She paid £150 for his time and he said "I know exactly what is wrong. I can fix it, and I am going to take you on as my NHS patient." Which he did. We then had to wait months for the appointment for the operation. At the pre-op her blood pressure was very low so they referred her for some tests. This being the NHS that meant "your operation is cancelled. Go back to your GP. Get him to refer you to a testing place, get some tests, come back and we will put you on the waiting list again." The testing place cancelled the test because they broke their only testing equipment and have only just now had it replaced. If it had been private they would also have referred her for tests. Which would have been downstairs, lasted an hour, and then back upstairs to get on with the pre-op.In the end my job offered medical insurance that covered her and her pre-existing condition. She phoned up and said "I've got insurance" - they phoned back and said "right, how's next week for you". She was operated on, given her own nurse 24 hours a day, had a room with a minibar, movies on demand, a wine list, amazing food, and, yes, Bupa etc can do the complicated stuff. Spinal surgery - no problem. 5 weeks later she is as right as rain for the first time in many many years.
So yeah, if you get hit by a car and rushed off in an ambulance then the NHS is perfect. If you have a chronic condition it's fucking useless - and it's because it's all about process, paperwork, dogma, and not about healing the sick. You get different treatment, different drugs etc depending on where you live. You used to get disgusting filthy hospitals staffed by workshy cunts, but my more recent experience tells me that has changed for the better. Private medicine is awesome - you get no restriction on treatment, location, they treat you amazingly, your hospital is like a 4 star hotel and yet along the way every stage is a profit-making venture. It beats me why the NHS cannot be run as efficiently as private medicine.
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One of my friends Al-lan moved over to America when he was 17. He became a fireman and was one of the many hundreds involved in 9/11. A year after he was diagnosed with lung cancer. Im not sure of the details but his insurance would not cover him for an entire course of treatment. He was looking at massive medical bills which he could never afford. Because of this he moved back to the UK where he has been treated and given the all clear.
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i got hearing aids from NHS 5 years ago due to accelerated decrepitude (of hearing) and they (St Marys) have always treated me amazingly and give me new improved models (for free!) when i go for assessments each year. They post me batteries when I need them too. Love them.
You get posted batteries?! Wtf, Im jealous, Im complaining to the nuffield now!
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hah, I have to go to the NHS with a little book to pick up hearing aids battery for free (that's another plus of the NHS, I need hearing aids battery as they last between 7 days to two weeks).
Mines longer than two weeks ner ner! But I dont need a book, I usually collect enough to keep me going for a year!
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Back in topic, I strongly believe that health care should be free to everyone, after all it is our lives we're talking about, not an iPod that become obsolete every 12 months.
I think any life saving service should be public. The fire departments used to be private in the US many years ago. People that didn't pay had to watch as their house burned to the ground. They made it public. It just makes sense.
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• #114
Private medicine is awesome - you get no restriction on treatment, location, they treat you amazingly, your hospital is like a 4 star hotel and yet along the way every stage is a profit-making venture. It beats me why the NHS cannot be run as efficiently as private medicine.
Private health care being more efficient is a myth. You're arguing that it was more convenient and less painful than public. I don't doubt that was true. However, to offer that level of service to everyone is obviously financially unfeasible. What's more, to offer that level of service to the financially able is morally questionable.
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• #115
By that level of service, I'm largely referring to "wine lists" and "4 star hotel" quality comforts.
I can't comment on the quality of the medical care (although I doubt it would be better).
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A case in point is the railway system here. Much better under British Rail. Hopeless and expensive now that its privatised. British Airways is the opposite. Better privatised, but is the exception.
Private isn't better than state run.
America has been a socialist state ever since it funded the Tennessee Valley Water Authority. This is still running, and funded by the government, as the area found that no private comapny could provide water to the community at reasonable costs - ie, a profit, that could be afforded on both sides. The TVWA has run since 1933, but most Americans are oblivious to the truly socialist status of their country.
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A case in point is the railway system here. Much better under British Rail. Hopeless and expensive now that its privatised. British Airways is the opposite. Better privatised, but is the exception.
Private isn't better than state run.
America has been a socialist state ever since it funded the Tennessee Valley Water Authority. This is still running, and funded by the government, as the area found that no private comapny could provide water to the community at reasonable costs - ie, a profit, that could be afforded on both sides. The TVWA has run since 1933, but most Americans are oblivious to the truly socialist status of their country.
true
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A case in point is the railway system here. Much better under British Rail. Hopeless and expensive now that its privatised. British Airways is the opposite. Better privatised, but is the exception.
.speaking of the railway industry, I actually use that as an example of how privatisation isn't always the best option (and especially pointed to an American who seemed to see "nationalisation" as a George Orwellian thing;
If you want to see a real-life Nationalisation and Privatisation at the same time, your best bet is to look in the history of British Rail, i'll write down what I've remembered;
secondly, what's exactly wrong with nationalisation? 1984 was merely a worse-case scenario of what happen, to compare anything to 1984 is simply ridiculous.
When the railways in Britain has been nationalised into "British Railway" (later as British Rail) in 1948, they immeditally replace steam engine in favour of diesel and electric power, less freight train in favour of passengers service as the main aim of the railway despite 1/3rd of the network closed down in the UK, it was a very drastic move, but allowed the railway to evolve into what we have now as a passenger service, had that not happen, it'd be more like the American railroad (more frieght less passenger), unfortuantely there were lots of problem, especially financial-wise, and most especially controlling the railway in such a scales that it was diffcuilt to maintain the entire network, the other problem is that certain bosses of British Rail end up creating mistake (much like politic really, Bush government made some mistake, and the Obama government end up trying to fix it), netheless it did bring improvement to what appear to be a declining industry due to the increase of motorised vehicles.
1994 come the privatisation of British Rail, the Conservatives were in power (for quite a while) and were losing the support of the people, the prime minister predicted that the railway would improved drastically once it been privatised as a last ditch effort to leave a mark, the railway is now split to it's original network around the UK to focus on smaller area.
this bring drastic improvement as locals railway company were about to focus on their line as oppose to having a big network focusing on the entire of the UK, the railway were improved, train running on times, newer rolling stock due to the company being able to pool their resource in focusing the best finanical way to improve the railway, if one railway company made a mistake, the other railway company are likely not to be affected (unless they're sharing the same route), the downside is this;
less rolling stocks, extreme congestion at peak hours, highest fare cost in europe due to companies milking money from their customers, price varies depend on railway companies, not by distance. (i.e. a single 50 miles trip on South West Train cost £7.50, whether a similar distance on East Midlands Train cost a whopping £12).
So in conclusion, each different approach bring different result, does not necessary mean one is superior to the other, it just mean it have a different pro and con.
Was British Rail at the time is comparable to Orwellian's worse case senario of privatisation? far from it.
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Secondly, hearing aids are not covered by health insurance plans in the US, therefore deaf people have to pay for them themselves,
Well, it depends on what plan you have, really.
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Jokes like this arent funny to me, they make me want to punch cuntards in the face. Sorry but jokes like this are VERY old
Fair enough. Keep that in mind, however, when you make casual 'jokes' about 'not being Jewish.'
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The railways in this country were hopeless long before they were privatised. They are still hopeless now, with a few exceptions.
Privatisation is sometimes a very good thing - as with BT - As a public company we'd all still be forced to rent (rather stylish) dial phones and pay by the second for very slow internet access. It's privatisation and competition which has given us cheap fast broadband, mobile networks and Skype.
So OK, my assessment of the NHS vs private was a very personal experience. I'm not suggesting that the NHS should offer wine lists and movies on demand to everyone (although don't discount for a second just how much less stressful these luxury comforts make major surgery and just how much it speeds up your recovery. 5 weeks later after serious spinal surgery she's back on a bike. (Compare with years waiting for the right diagnosis and the massive cost in drugs that the 2 year wait for an operation that was then cancelled. how much did that cost the nation?)
I am also well aware that she could not have got insurance on her own. AXA PPP didn't see me coming it's true.
But the medical care was better. Obviously the actual surgical procedure was the same, and done by the same surgeon who would have done it on the NHS, but the ease of admission, the straightforwardness of everything and the intensive aftercare was much better. For the 1st 24 hours there was always at least one nurse in the room. There were daily visits from the surgeon and anaesthetist, and after that she was checked on every couple of hours. They also came immediately when the call button was pressed. The food was also very very good, and high quality. This really makes a difference to your recovery, and for that reason I do class it as medical care.
Contrast that with the NHS - When I was hit by a car in 2000 I was admitted to a disgustingly dirty ward in the Royal London staffed by uppity nurses who thought cleaning up things like the used vomit bowls was beneath them and flat out refused to remove them. My surgery was delayed several times by the air ambulance bringing more urgent cases, which is obviously understandable, but I was not told when it was delayed and as a result I spent 2 days with no food because they didn't check, and stop my nil-by-mouth. They also didn't check or tell me when the op was due, so the surgery people came to fetch me and found me unprepared. And the surgery only went so far as to pin my ankle back together. They did nothing to my crushed foot and it was two years before I could ride a bike again. I got a mere 3 physio appointments afterwards.
Thankfully I did the Easter Egg ride and can say that the NHS hospitals and the staff in them nowadays is miles away from this. I was especially delighted to see how much better the London is. (although we went to the childrens ward, not the men with broken legs ward!) but back then it was bleak.
The NHS is awesome at some things, but I see no reason why it cannot be as easy to use as private care. Everything about it is hampered by paperwork and needless procedure, created by years of dogma and mismanagement and it costs millions that should be spent on medical care. Nobody should have to move because their local health authority will not pay for treatment. You should be able to choose your own consultant. And if you want, why not allow people to pay extra for better 'hotel services' if they are an inpatient - private rooms, TVs, internet, etc? This could pay for guaranteeing ward beds for those who cannot or do not want to.
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You should be able to choose your own consultant.
i think a lot of the time people assume they know more than the doctors and nurses (obv unless they are a qualified doc or something), and our culture has taught us if we don't like what someone says, we should go find someone who says something else. Can you imagaine how it would be to be a new doctor with no reputation yet? you'd have no patients while the really successfull 'super docs' with good history and PR had a larrrge waiting list. Although maybe you could slip them a few quid and go to the front of the queue. hang on, isn't this the private and nhs we have already?
Private hospitals are cleaner and have nicer staff because they have a gazillion(not statistically correct) less patients and pay their staff more, cos they can just charge more. The NHS can only pay people what we pay them in taxes.staffed by workshy cunts,
I'd hate to be a nurse (or a policeman) doing a job because it needs doing and they want to help people, getting underpaid and being called lazy cunts by the people that they are meant to be helping. doing their best in a system that isn't perfect coz it was fucked up by successive governments of both major parties.
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The railways in this country were hopeless long before they were privatised. They are still hopeless now, with a few exceptions.
While I don't remember the bad old days of BR very well (too young) I'd argue that the same systematic problems are still at least as bad as they were (trains slow, old and delayed) only now the service is also much more expensive, overcrowded, impersonally staffed and less well integrated nationally. So, a net fail.
When I was hit by a car in 2000 I was admitted to a disgustingly dirty ward in the Royal London staffed by uppity nurses who thought cleaning up things like the used vomit bowls was beneath them and flat out refused to remove them.
Nursing care is interesting. You now need to be academically qualified to work as a nurse (diploma or degree) and nurses are being given more responsibility for diagnosis and performing medical procedures. The academic qualification is ridiculous - my ex is a nurse, and a good one, but can't write an essay to save her life - and the increased clinical responsibility is entirely due to nurses being cheaper than doctors and nothing to do with standard of care.
I'd speculate that a private system would either be prohibitively expensive (see entire thread) with nurses and doctors in more "traditional" roles, or would go down the same route as the NHS (which, as many have pointed out, is now obsessed with private sector ideas of "cost" and "competitiveness") except more so, with more nurse-led treatments.
Bear in mind that at the moment the private system is integrated with the NHS and reaps all its advantages - all it needs to do is provide a more attentive service to the top whatever-percent of people that are privileged enough to afford the insurance. Population-wide private care would look quite different, particularly to those on average or low income.
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Whilst the NHS has provided treatment all her life, and certainly to a better level than Ireland has provided some of her friends with the same condition for example, it has made the whole thing a bureaucratic nightmare.
+1
I got referred for physio while I was abroad, came back here and went straight to my GP with an x-ray. She referred me to a physio, who was really good, but after a few sessions said that I would have to see a chiropodist. He sent a report/referral thing to my GP and warned me that I would have to fight to actually get to see the chiropodist, so I went back to my GP once she'd gotten the report. She went through it with me, basically dismissed everything the physio had written and told me that the x-ray I had was useless to determine the root of the problem and that I couldn't go for another one because it was too expensive, and that she wasn't 'very impressed' by a diagnosis of slight scoliosis that the physio had included. She did say she would send me to the chiropodist and that the hospital would ring me in the coming weeks to arrange an appointment. This happened about 6 months ago and I still haven't been called (not that I expected it)
Anyway, because there is no quick-fix option for my condition, she just seemed completely unwilling to do anything to help me further than giving me painkillers.
I'm not saying that this is an example of the whole NHS, just a certain type of bitchy GP that you would probably get anywhere, but I reckon her unwillingness to even start to treat something that is long-term and not nececssarily treatable is something that is widespread because of the sheer volume of patients they have to deal with.In the end, I didn't even bother with any more physio appointments or trying to see the chiropodist and went back abroad, where I rang up a physio in the morning, saw him in the afternoon and got an x-ray done the next morning.
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What can you tell us Yanks about Healthcare in the UK
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@VeloSniper
Jokes like this arent funny to me, they make me want to punch cuntards in the face. Sorry but jokes like this are VERY old