How to make the roads safer?

I remember this being done somewhere and it did make people slow down and drive more carefully.

kent & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makkinga- concept is called shared space.

& my two p

the fundamental problem is that roads are designed for motorised vechicles. until you change your design priorities you don't get anywhere....as to improve cycle you need different solutions for different locations. london is so complex that you need this flexibility.

change requires management. the change we have at the moment is more cyclists so it needs management not just - 'ok every one get out there and fight for your space'. this is the approach at the moment.

i see value in cyclists training but i've also been run over by a number of cardriving instructors (and cars) therefore i think they need training as well. motorcyclists must be trained as well as they are dangerous and mostly driven by wankers.

ASL's can be enforced tomrrow tfl just need to do it - send a letter to the mayor on it. it will help if lots of people do it.

Surely ASL cameras would be a fantastic money-spinner for the councils as well? At least in the short term til everyone learns not to do it the hard way. Taking motorists cash away is the only way to get em to think.
And a big spike on the dash as well.

Tax the living fuck out of petrol and use the proceeds to narrow the 'car lanes' on the roads.

Works for Copenhagen.

Would work in the UK too if the politicians didn't line their ponds with the proceeds.

dont you mean maintain their moats?

With some cyclists it's like the motorists who go at deathwish speeds on thick foggy motorways.Out of interest,how do we compare to other European countries regarding cycle related accidents?.

Grammar! Anyway!(edit).I'm going to bed!:o)

First a foremost make yourself very very visible with an unmissible jersey,HIGH VIS Green.Screaming Yellow or for the more fashionable one of those really obvious PINK or LILAC numbers.Observe this firstly and then you have a concrete case to scream ARE YOU BL*ODY BLIND,PR**K.Make sure your ears are not bunged up with wax,or for that matter your iPod earphones.Your ears are the equivalent of you having EYES IN YOUR *RSE.But on a more serious note a rock solid petition to your local MP from cyclists in each region in the country about the state of the roads,just for the record some of the cycle specific paths & marked lanes are just as bad.This could be set up on LF-G&SS by the powers that be for the unity of clout.

i think it's education, all round. cyclists and drivers. and a complete british attitude change.... everyone is too agressive on the roads, in too much of a rush. pedestrians, cyclists and drivers.

i was back in london the other week (have moved out now), and was a passenger in my friends car, and to be honest it was frightening! i know i am now very sensitive, but the number of bikes that come at you from all sides at speed, and the number of drivers who don't look, don't indicate and drive so aggressively and selfishly was shocking! having been away from it for 8 months, it made me wonder how i ever cycled to work every day for years with all that metal around me!

but i am still very pro cycling - i just think the infrastructure isn't there, and Boris shouldn't be heavily promoting it until it is.

Defo. As soon as i started driving i became a much more careful cyclist, knowing how difficult they can be to see (and just seeing plenty of amazingly dangerous drivers). With a quick glance in your mirror on a gloomy day a cyclist without lights or reflective gear can seem almost invisible. But also one can't help but be a more more aware driver having seen how reckless some people are cycling.

I think the big mess of traffic and cyclists and the constant life or death decisions are the reasons i enjoy cycling in london. take that away and its just like going on the tube but harder work

I think all cyclists (and all car drivers) should do motorcycle CBT for 2 reasons:

1. The standard of training is superb and is all about road safety and traffic awareness, but is also about riding assertively.
   
2. Everyone can benefit from seeing how the other half lives. When car drivers go out on motorbikes they realise how scary and dangerous it is. When cyclists do they realise just how passive and dangerous their riding has been up till then.
   

In the words of the wise women... "Kill Everybody In The Whole World"

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ianvisits/sets/72157611633177884/

I think all cyclists (and all car drivers) should do motorcycle CBT for 2 reasons:

1. The standard of training is superb and is all about road safety and traffic awareness, but is also about riding assertively.
   
2. Everyone can benefit from seeing how the other half lives. When car drivers go out on motorbikes they realise how scary and dangerous it is. When cyclists do they realise just how passive and dangerous their riding has been up till then.
   
   
   

i agree - did my CBT about 7 years ago and it makes you very aware.

This year's first Reith lecture is super interesting and very relevant to this discussion:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00729d9

Well worth a listen. Two things that struck me were:

1. Use of incentives may erode people's natural desire to do something good - he gave a fascinating example of blood donation system in the States (where people are paid) vs here (voluntary) and found the payment system led to all sorts of problems.

2. Taxes change people's perception of the thing they're being taxed for, shifting it from something that people might consider undesirable, to something that's a right. This really reminds of a trip I had to Oz (Sydney drivers are massively agressive towards cyclists, particularly road cyclists - amazing really, given the sporting ethos but, anyway, that's another discussion!), where I was talking to a cyclist who said common abuse thrown at him included, "get a f*****g rego, mate", or words to that effect. (rego==road tax) In other words, car drivers thought they owned the road because they paid tax, thus could behave as they wanted....

Courant

Just been past Old St Fire Station and the plod have a HGV set-up for cyclists to sit in and check the blind spots. Good to see something positive being done.

Stop and have a look if you are passing by.

In Holland they have the opposite approach to liability to most countries including ours and Norway.

The Dutch philosophy is "Cyclists are not dangerous; cars and car drivers are; so cars should take the responsibility for avoiding collisions with cyclists. This implies that car drivers are almost always liable when a collision with a bicycle occurs and should adapt their speed when bicycles share the roads with motorists"

go and tell everyone in positions of authority that^
we can take strength from it.

www.fietsberaad.org

yeah i just had a look at that HGV thing. You get up in the cab and have someone talk you through what the driver can and can't see. Fucking mental. The drivers have really reduced visibility. I'm well aware of the dangers of traveling down the left of vehicles, but these drivers can't see down the right really, well not without sticking their heads out of the window. And they can't see out front for the first 2 metres. The seat is super-suspensioned too, so even if they roll over you they perhaps wouldn't know until back at the yard unless someone is around to witness. Super scary, but very informative.
A bit deperessing actually...

Hi to the responsible among us.Having read the:-Stopped by The Police thread a few minutes ago and further to my input #83.It strikes me that rounding up all of the offenders of the RED LIGHT RODEO on a regular basis and force them to ride head on into remote controlled cars on a RING-FENCED CIRCUIT of a one lane only; might just help clear some of the dust from their woodworm infested brains.If any are lucky to survive;the roads are then made safer by having lost the luckless ones and SCARING THE *i out of the few survivers.

I believe this thread has now met the requirements to be merged with other RLJ threads and to be called "the definitive bikeradar RLJ (red light jumping) thread".

Such great contributions one and all.

You are very strange.

Do you work for the daily mail?

Nice timing Tommy

Ooops not at Velocio.

(Peace be upon him)

the roads are then made safer by having lost the luckless ones and SCARING THE *i out of the few survivers.

Not brave enough to jump reds, not brave enough to swear

I just don't think this helps at all. The number of times I've seen fluorescent clad organ donors, shaking a fist at a car after having made a turn into the car's path without even the most cursory of signals is just frightening.... Take some responsibility for yourself and everything falls into place.