Tube strike, London

LUL / TfL staff have some of the best pay and conditions around, and a lot of this was because of work by the various unions.

The power of the threat of strike is enough, RMT's threats to strike resulted in a revised offer from LUL management, and RMT and LUL were in ACAS talks to come to an agreeement.

The RMT refused to suspend strike action whilst the ACAS talks went on, which is just pathetic.

I've no issue with unionisation and pushing for better benefits, but when demands are as unrealistic as the RMT's it's a different story.

Roman road to Old Street one long queue. Now much coming the other way, so managed to ride to Great Eastern Street pretty unhindered, GES was crackers, took Leonard Street and round the back of the P.O. then back onto Old Street and down through Clerkenwell, then just took the right hand side all the way to Covent Garden, wasn't too grim, nothing was moving, took about 25 mins instead of the usual 20. Lot of Nodders/Poppins out there.

Err, they're doing something. Something more than most people have the luxury of doing, whether you agree with it or not you can't deny that.

Agree, but there are other jobs that would allow them to change their hours and scene. i have nothing against them doing there job at all, but why fight so hard to change the place you work at when moving to a place that works for you makes for happier people all round?

I'm not sure I've heard anyone except outsiders say it's a shit job or that they're saying that. There's obviously a lot of benefits to it. They're fighting for (even, if you want) better conditions. If you could do that, wouldn't you?

If they're button pushers (yes, they are, just button pushers with a lot more potential responsibility than most) then how do you improve standards or get better people? Surely you're just either competent at it, or not?

They are not fighting for better conditions. They are insisting their jobs are stable, they take a cut in hours and get paid more money.. in this climate i think thats a bit rich.
The investment should be made in improving the workspace not filling the employees pockets. these are clearly low on morale and paying them wont fix that

I'll throw my tuppence in here too. They are all on a final salary pension scheme. No private companies are doing those any more and those that have them are phasing them out. They get a great deal for a fiarly simple job.

How hard is it to go forward, stop, open doors, close doors, go forward stop, pithy announcement etc? Ol Bob Crowe is living in a bygone age and as a country we can't afford their ott demands.

Nearly every company is having to lay off people, shit happens, get over it. If you want to go on strike at the srop of a hat move to France. bunch of cheese eating surrender monkeys. yumm, cheese. Now where is my pain au chocolate?

P.S. I love the clowns riding bikes with saddles too low and knees sticking uot to the side!

"I saw a report on the RMT's demands the other night which also showed what tube drivers get paid. It's already more than my psychologist girlfriend gets paid, more than I get paid as a fundraiser for a national charity"

It is an outrage that working-class people have the ability to earn more than the middle classes!! after all you've got your expectations to think about and student loan to pay off....just who do they think they are??!?!

No disrespect, but I'm sure tube drivers go through some pretty hefty training and it's a stressful job, they have the safety of hundreds of pasengers in their hands after all, I personally would be disappointed if I discovered they got paid less than, say, an airline pilot, which is similar in terms of responsibility.....although if anything the tube drivers serve community, the public, industry and commerce more, so maybe their value is greater.

They are all on a final salary pension scheme. No private companies are doing those any more and those that have them are phasing them out.

But a lot of (probably most) public sector areas still have them. One of the benefits of working in the Public Sector. Comparing it to private companies is apples and oranges.

As for it being a 'fairly simple job', it's not. Really, it's not.

I personally would be disappointed if I discovered they got paid less than, say, an airline pilot, which is similar in terms of responsibility.

I may let you slide with similar in responsibility but there is a huge gulf in the skills required to systems manage, fly and land a 767 in variable conditions vs. those needed to run a tube train.

Pay is reflected accordingly. Yes. Pilots make a metric f**k tonne more.

[quote=winston;745162

No disrespect, but I'm sure tube drivers go through some pretty hefty training and it's a stressful job, they have the safety of hundreds of pasengers in their hands after all, I personally would be disappointed if I discovered they got paid less than, say, an airline pilot, which is similar in terms of responsibility.....although if anything the tube drivers serve community, the public, industry and commerce more, so maybe their value is greater.[/quote]

I don't mind what they get paid, i think they are taking the piss asking for a payrise and no redundancies when everyone else is getting fucked over.

And as stressfull as flying an airplane? Are you having a laugh, the tube is on rails, it goes forwards and backwards and that is about it. It is that relaxed i have heard of tube drivers getting sacked for watching portable DVDs in their cabs. Flying a place vs driving a tube? Hmm the only shitter is iff somo bigger idiot throws himself in front of you.

Flying a place vs driving a tube? Hmm the only shitter is iff somo bigger idiot throws himself in front of you.

Guess you've not heard of autopilot or landing along a beam?

I expect that tube drivers have to deal with death more frequently than airline pilots and the amount of people for whom they are responsible is roughly equal....

But they're grubby and common, don't wear crsip white shirts, or speak in a funny "flight-school" accent....as if a pilot never leaves the cockpit or got distracted by a hostess.

Well at least tube drivers don't spend their days on internet forums :)

hell yeah, i'm gonna start a union at my work...

Who's with me...

Central line is driven by software, not people, it's automatic, the driver is backup.

You should pay people like ME more.. and pray...

It's a shite job being stuck down a dark tunnel and the the drivers are probably to stupid and lazy to get challenging carrers so stick with a routine which consists of looking down dark tunnel's and being an annamus voice over the tannoy.
But anywho, they are entitled to good pay and working conditions as should most jobs such as bin men (underated). I think it's good to strike for better all round working conditions but to say train drivers want exemption from the resecssion is a bit strong.
If you really want to improve the London underground and bus services (although they are getting better with time); commuters should strike! Don't get the tube, walk or cycle or drive. Leave the tubes and buses empty! That'll make them rethink ticketing prices and time tables.

Saying that this morning on the way to work there were many studpid cyclist, peds and drivers and I don't know if I want to deal with them every morning.

Central line is driven by software, not people, it's automatic, the driver is backup.

You should pay people like ME more.. and pray...

Victoria line has Automatic Train Operation (ATO) as well, has done since it opened in 1968.

Jubilee will have it in 2009 and Northern in 2011...

Regardless, drivers still have to know manual operation for every given set of cirumstances.

£35k starting salary and 30 day (plus BH) annual leave, along with medical and final salary pension scheme for sitting in a chair staring right ahead. I do something similar already but I don't get the perks and I don't go on strike and screw over millions of people who just glad to have a job.

I do get free travel around London though ..... o-o

Do you realise the chance you have with the public transport in London? Do you have any idea what it would be like if we only had half the services that we currently have, well yes, you experienced it a bit today. I admire tube, bus and other transport drivers. Those are real jobs but why do we take them for granted?

Can you at least see all the effort put in today: more river services, more buses, walking maps, LCC organising rides, bike parking space etc...

But people are so lazy that they prefer to jump in their cars when most of them probably could walk to work in one hour.

The RMT refused to suspend strike action whilst the ACAS talks went on, which is just pathetic.

I'll agree I don't really see the wisdom there, if that's true. It's difficult to know what's true when you hear directly conflicting stuff from either side - for example the claim that since election, Boris Johnson hasn't met directly with RMT leadership once. If that's true, that sounds pretty bad. (I know though it could just be something for Hendy to do instead)

They are not fighting for better conditions. They are insisting their jobs are stable, they take a cut in hours and get paid more money.. in this climate i think thats a bit rich.

Well yeah, but they (as far as I read, anyway) had an agreement that the jobs were safeguarded when Metronet went tits up, and that's being changed. It's not their fault that PPP is a stupid farce. "Current economic climate" seems to be a really convenient buzz phrase to blame any cuts or "rationalisation" on. TFL and LUL aren't ordinary private companies, and imposing a 5 year pay deal means it'll outlast whatever the current climate is.

The investment should be made in improving the workspace not filling the employees pockets. these are clearly low on morale and paying them wont fix that

I agree with that (although extra cash makes people a bit happier temporarily it won't stop future demands either - I'm not that blinkered...)

It's a difficult one, and not helped by how abrasive Crow comes across (or is reported by) the media. I just think it's better to try and understand what's actually going on and both points of view (my bias is pretty obvious) than whine about "cunts on 40k" or whatever.

I'll throw my tuppence in here too. They are all on a final salary pension scheme. No private companies are doing those any more and those that have them are phasing them out. They get a great deal for a fiarly simple job (...) bunch of cheese eating surrender monkeys

So again, it's lower the lucky's conditions to the lowest common denominator rather than try and bring the unlucky's up. What a great society we live in. But I now realise I'm defeated, in a minority and the 80s and 90s really did turn us all into self-centred gits. And that this is a forum about cycling and there's too much random shit on here lately anyway, and I apologise for adding to it.

£35k starting salary and 30 day (plus BH) annual leave, along with medical and final salary pension scheme for sitting in a chair staring right ahead. I do something similar already but I don't get the perks and I don't go on strike and screw over millions of people who just glad to have a job.

I do get free travel around London though ..... o-o

What do you do? is your job part of the essential framework of the community and country? are you responsible for the lives of thousands? Do thousands of individuals and businesses rely on you?

Seriously, what do you do?...are you jealous of tube driver's pay?

I'd like to know too.

i'm middle class. i don't do anything. i move bits of text around on a screen.

I don't mind what they get paid, i think they are taking the piss asking for a payrise and no redundancies when everyone else is getting fucked over.

Sigh, I'm a glutton for punishment, but still noone's answered this one: just because someone is getting fucked over, why does that mean someone else should be?

It depends on how fuck they were to begin with doesn't it.

What do you do? is your job part of the essential framework of the community and country? are you responsible for the lives of thousands? Do thousands of individuals and businesses rely on you?

Seriously, what do you do?...are you jealous of tube driver's pay?

OFFS, I don't care how much they get paid, what I do care about is the fact that because some trade union has their panties in a bunch they have gone on strike inconveniencing millions of people, costing London and screwing over thousands of struggling small businesses.

I use the tube as little as possible and I felt like a smug git on my bike this morning. If its too far to cycle I have a motorbike. It is the people that don't have the luxury of that that are fucked over.

And saying "Do thousands of individuals and businesses rely on you?" No they don't but that is exactly why those drivers shouldn't be striking, HTFU and realise there are over a million people looking for work. 10,000 tube drivers in the union and 3 thousand voted for the strike. Are there any specialist skills required, not really, are there people who would bite their arm off for a job like theirs, Yes.

I think they probably are taking the piss a bit (RMT) but thay have the upper hand in this one and are taking advantage. Given there is no way TFL is going to fold, and tubes will only get busier I'm not surprised they are stiking given 1000 jobs will get the chop. There's not much work out there and these 1000 will have families to support etc. From reports it does sound a bit unreasonable of them on a few issues, especially with those 2 mug drivers but we're probably not getting the whole story as per usual.

Working on the tube would have to completely suck arse - stuck down a stinky dark dusty tunnel all day or dealing with idiot commuters at a ticket barrier. Great fun. They should be paid properly as they indeed are, it's not really a great job. London is expensive, and seeing as they all need to live in London to work there, and it will no doubt be a job for life the pay must refect that, there are houses to buy and mouths to feed, and 40k doesn't go all that far TBH.

As far as unions go there is not really as much need for them today as it was the unions who got you all the priviledges and pay and conditions that you currently enjoy. They were formed in the first place because the employers were taking the piss, primarily with peoples lives. Without their hard work in the early 20th century working conditions and pay would still be abismal, dickensian even.

What do you do? is your job part of the essential framework of the community and country? are you responsible for the lives of thousands? Do thousands of individuals and businesses rely on you?

Seriously, what do you do?...are you jealous of tube driver's pay?

Are people who press buttons when automation fails really responsible for the lives of thousands? you could go on and say the burger flipper in McDs in Oxford St is also responsible for the lives of thousands (those he feeds).

When it comes to pay you get what you negotiate. negotiation is based on what you percieve you are worth against what the market/company believes you are worth plus what available money there is.
They are paid well above the average and it annoys people when they ask for more doing what is seen as a semi skilled job.

Makes it worse when they abuse their position to do this, putting everyones day out of joint.
How would we react if nurses, care workers, police, bin men, street cleaners and security guards all stopped working for a day to get more money? it's a weak way to negotiate