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@Archie's_Grobags
You need to remember though Mr Smith that my back is pretty fucked...My position was fine on all my bikes over the years until my back decided it wasn't going to bend where it should anymore...so now my lo-pros are helping because they're longer than the bikes i've been riding for most of my life, ...but unfortunately i can't just change all my bikes to suit my newly screwed up back. :(