Germans pay to scrap old bikes

For those of you that understand german:

http://www.spiegel.de/video/video-59978.html

Similar to what they're doing with cars already in germany, where people get 2k Euros or so for when they scrap a car and buy a new one, authorities of the german city Mannheim are now paying 50 Euros to those who scrap their old bike and get a new one from the shops.

Bet there's many nice frames to be had in Mannheim ...

....and what happened the last time the Germans did that?
World War 2 that's what!

Hehe, you might not notice it, but that's part of the plan. We're taking over by stealth! Oliver lecturing you about cycle training, a german deli at borough market, the MS Deutschland in front of Tower Bridge every now and then ... Hell, even the CUNT Clarkson loves us, but like a secretly gay guy he making homophobe jokes to cover his notions he's slagging us off in childish manners.

Next thing you know is that at 2012 everyone in the stadium will cheer for the boyz and galz from the Vaterland!

road trip to mannheim anyone ?

Well, these are tiny beginnings. So far, they've only committed €5,000 to this, for the first 100 people who come forward. It's all a question of how it develops. It is certainly true that as a lot of cycle trips are short, people often don't care about their bikes, butn the only reason why this is now in the news is because it parallels the Abwrackprämie for cars, which is currently a big topic in Germany. Ho hum.

Bet there's many nice frames to be had in Mannheim ...

Do you mean out of those put forward for the Abwrackprämie? Probably not, I would think.

....and what happened the last time the Germans did that?
World War 2 that's what!

Well, these are tiny beginnings.

Indeed.

I really don't understand this. With the cars it makes perfect sense.

Firstly, the German government makes back most of the money it gives to people, in the VAT they charge on the new car. Secondly, it cuts serious injuries (thanks to new cars being safer) and emissions (providing they don't 'upgrade' to an SUV).

But in bikes? Surely creating new frames drives up emissions, and last time I checked, bike frame technology hasn't exactly moved on in terms of safety. It would put an injection into the newbike market, I suppose, but I've got 2 Steel frames in my house the 30's/40's and they ride fine. It all seems like a colossal waste of resources to me.

I wonder how many people would get rid of frames I'd consider classic, because they think they are junk?

And as citygent said, it makes no sense.

I really don't understand this. With the cars it makes perfect sense.

Firstly, the German government makes back most of the money it gives to people, in the VAT they charge on the new car. Secondly, it cuts serious injuries (thanks to new cars being safer) and emissions (providing they don't 'upgrade' to an SUV).

But in bikes? Surely creating new frames drives up emissions, and last time I checked, bike frame technology hasn't exactly moved on in terms of safety. It would put an injection into the newbike market, I suppose, but I've got 2 Steel frames in my house the 30's/40's and they ride fine. It all seems like a colossal waste of resources to me.

You're probably a bike nut and know your stuff. The people this is aimed at aren't. It's also not just about safety, but about other aspects of riding. For instance, with a better bike you can do more trips more comfortably and more conveniently. It raises the status of cycling. I could go on--there are many positives. But as they say in the news piece, they can't see how it could stimulate the economy. This is of course what the Abwrackprämie is primarily aimed at--people buying new cars; apparently, one in six German jobs is related to the car industry (I've never been able to find any reliable source to confirm or deny this figure), and the German car industry is currently tanking badly.

Oliver: I suppose you're right. But I just don't envision Berlin as the kind of place you see lots of people riding around on Apollo's from Halfords. I would have thought they'd be a bit more savvy on bikes than the average british consumer.

Secondly:

It's true that a lot of jobs in germany are tied into their car production. Remember it's not just the guys in the factories making the cars and the parts, it's the designers, financiers of these huge companies like BMW and VW group.

I work for Streetcar, and we are buying the new Mk6 Golf at practically nothing at the moment, because VW just can't seem to sell them to anyone else.

Europe car industry is seriously behind the curve as far as emissions/hybrid tech goes. But we're not doing as badly as the states. This said, the UK is the only place in Europe where new car registrations has continued to fall month on month, despite incentives fomr the government.

I can see the german industry as one of the only surviving european makers. VW Group are massive and have some clever people working for them.

Oliver: I suppose you're right. But I just don't envision Berlin as the kind of place you see lots of people riding around on Apollo's from Halfords. I would have thought they'd be a bit more savvy on bikes than the average british consumer.

They will be marginally more savvy than British consumers, yes--but there are an enormous number of shit bikes in Germany, too, that are just as bad as the worst bikes you can buy in Britain--after all, they're probably not made either in Britain or Germany, so that there's little about them that's specific to these countries. There are bike discounters that sell total crap.

In Berlin, it might be different than in Mannheim, but this is only a tiny little scheme in Mannheim, not in Berlin (it's a scheme run by the city, not a national scheme). I know a fair bit about Mannheim, having been born there and all, and it is definitely a city where cycling is low on the agenda, where few trips are made by bike (excellent public transport, a highly walkable and compact city centre on the plus side, high car ownership like everywhere in Germany and intimidating ring roads and large car parks on the minus side), so any initiative is welcome. And fair play to them, they will have gained quite a lot of positive exposure for Mannheim without much media coverage.

Interesting points about Streetcar. Car clubbing is a very good thing.

Carclubbing rocks. I have to be honest and say I've wrked at SC longer than any other company, just because it's a kickass place to work and you actually feel like your work is doing something for the city. It's a bit ridiculous that we all expect to own and park our own cars, when we're living ontop of one another in towerblocks as it is. There just isn't enough room for everyone to have their own car, let alone the environmental impact.

Another interesting thing about carclubs is how they completely change your driving habits. If it's cold outside and late at night, and you have a car outside your house, and you want some rizla from the shop a mile away. Youre going to be lazy and take the car. If you have to book a car and you see the direct cost of that trip being about £3, you make the effort to walk/cycle.

If everyone in London was a member of carclubs there would be hardly any traffic caused by needless trips, and public transport would have to improve.

It never feels like I'm fighting a losing battle, either. Well, when working in London. We just launched SC in Oxford and I did wonder if, like Mannheim I suppose, car ownership is just too much a part of the culture. Towns and Citys like that, are built for cars. Ringroads, bypasses, retail parks miles away from the city centre, etc. etc.

I know what it's like, cus I grew up in Wolverhampton. Where everybody, and I mean everybody, learns to drive as soon as they hit 17. It's mainly because public transport in the rest of the country sucks ass. There were only 4 buses a day to the town I lived in, which was 14 miles away from where I went to college...

It never feels like I'm fighting a losing battle, either. Well, when working in London. We just launched SC in Oxford and I did wonder if, like Mannheim I suppose, car ownership is just too much a part of the culture. Towns and Citys like that, are built for cars. Ringroads, bypasses, retail parks miles away from the city centre, etc. etc.

Yes, London is the easy target. In Oxford, along with the things you've mentioned, you also have to contend with the badly misconceived Park and Ride system.

Do you mean out of those put forward for the Abwrackprämie? Probably not, I would think.

Well, I assume there are going to be a couple of people who trade in a nice but rusty steel frame bike for the latest weird german alloy concoction with them weird handlebars that look like an 8.

Mannheim, eh? Not so far from where I grew up, which was more in the woods ... used to work there in my first internship, on the Friesenheimer Insel. Those where the days ... sigh ...

Well, I assume there are going to be a couple of people who trade in a nice but rusty steel frame bike for the latest weird german alloy concoction with them weird handlebars that look like an 8.

Maybe! I personally hate butterfly bars, too, but I generally think along the lines of 'the more diversity in bikes, the better'.

http://www.velovision.co.uk/ FTW!