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@VeloSniper
Here's my only beef with the (opt) I assume that is out of the package?
Here it is, most of the companies that sell bikes are merely assemblers if that really most are marketers.
Fuji, Pake, Surly, SE, Gem Pro, probably your Club, and a lot of the other "high end" bikes are made by one manufacturer in Taiwan. Maxway. They do a great job, and make quality products at all levels. Here's the rub, the frames cost 50-100 bucks from them (powder coat, and graphics included). If you have a relationship with them and can take a container of product, And most of these bikes are sold as something special from a company you trust at 800 usd. and above. Pinarello is made in Indonesia. If you buy them from the manufacturer complete that 2000. bike is about 600. usd.
I don't mind buying a otp bike that is relatively close to my exact optimum geometry. What I do mind is getting duped by some marketing company into believing it's something special made by Italian craftsmen.
As a matter of fact I am about to buy one of their frames myself for a build I'm doing. But I will be damned if I will buy it for the 800.usd that SE charges for it. Got it for a lot less.