Lance Armstrong... greatest doper there was or ever will be

So what happened in 2000-05? :)

2000 was probably EPO fuelled as the EPO test wasn't ratified for use until later that summer, just in time for the Sydney Olympics. USPS were also using Activogen, as witnessed by a French tv crew when team support staff were filmed dumping medical waste in a lay-by over 100 kms off the TdF route.

In 2001-2005 it's well documented that EPO usage continued but at the micro-dosing level, i.e. you took it more frequently but in smaller doses as it is far harder to detect. Armstrong's team also used to blood dope, basically re-injecting 800 ml of blood that had been taken out and stored up to 6 weeks previously. This was documented in the IM chat between Jonathan Vaughters and Frankie Andreu below;

IM between Frankie Andreu and Jonathan Vaughters - RoadBikeReview Forums

Not completely 100% related but I think everyone on here would find this book interesting,

Muscle: A Writer's Trip Through a Sport with No Boundaries: Amazon.co.uk: Jon Hotten: Books

Quite interesting take on body building, doping etc.

The same Vrijman report which was criticised by WADA for "so lacking in professionalism and objectivity that it borders on farcical"?
http://www.wada-ama.org/en/newsarticle.ch2?articleId=3115287
Vrijman was personally appointed by Hein Verbruggen, the then chairman of the UCI and a long standing personal friend. To say it stinks of a cover up would be generous.

The same WADA who's president was then censured by the IOC Ethics Commission for his statements against Armstrong? :)

Actovegin wasn't banned at the time and isn't necessarily performance enhancing. Did the IOC remove it from the banned list?
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/more/news/2001/02/14/ioc_actovegin_ap/

In 2001-2005 it's well documented that EPO usage continued but at the micro-dosing level, i.e. you took it more frequently but in smaller doses as it is far harder to detect. Armstrong's team also used to blood dope, basically re-injecting 800 ml of blood that had been taken out and stored up to 6 weeks previously. This was documented in the IM chat between Jonathan Vaughters and Frankie Andreu below;
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=104675

Where is it "well documented"?

As for your reference link, I refer you to this guy's quote:

"It's two guys talking about things of which they don't have personalknowledge. One of them swore an affidavit that said as much. It couldall be true, or it could be BS. You see what you want to see."

i dont know about the whole doping malarky, but i dont like lance. hes far too smug and american for my taste. i hated the way when Beloki crashed on the descent and lance had to ride across a field, he got back on right in the middle of the road during a descent. what a wanker, he could have really fucked up there. maybe im too british and reserved, but i find alot of his celebrations to be well over the top. its all minor, but in cycling you like some people and not others.

i think alot of the reason i dont enjoy watching lance is that its never really a battle. he just wins all the time in an unspectacular style. for a sportsman to really shine he needs good competition. we all knew ulrich was never going to beat lance so it was pretty dull watching. thats why i like lemond and finion, you knew they hated each other and there was a constant rivalry which pushed thier riding.

with all that said there has been some classic lance moments. i liked seeing jan ulrich being caught in the first stage TT in 2005, and the Hautacam attack was amazing to watch.

Speaking of doping, MASH SF are going to ride the Amgen Tour of California course trailing the peloton.

750 miles fixed in a week, they're going to need some.

Edit they're hanging out with Garmin crew.. all hail the hipster/roadie merger

Why is he self righteous? He cares passionately about a sport that gave him a lot, both financially and personally. He has no commercial interests in the sport so doesn't have to toe the party line and he speaks out against doping at every opportunity. He should be hailed as a hero.

The pathetic argument that he is somehow jealous of Armstrong's success is yet more of the cynical PR Armstrong and his cronies put out to undermine the veracity of Lemond's arguments. Armstrong's attempted bullying of Lemond and attempts to damage his credibility and his business show Armstrong up for the unedifying cunt that he is.

I think Lemond comes across that way in that he attempts to take the moral high road while slandering Armstrong left and right... it doesn't exactly help that Lemond's diatribes about Armstrong are the only time he gets himself in the national news in the U.S.

You can say what you want, but I seriously doubt I'm the only American who views Lemond's continued inserting of himself into this issue as, at least in part, a misplaced attempt to put himself back in the limelight. If GL isn't trying to do this he needs some help on his message, it comes across really badly.

Don't get me wrong, I want to see GL's honorable intentions in all of this (somewhere I still have photos I took of Lemond and a few others when a race wound through my hometown).

now I'm interested, read this!:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2009/feb09/feb13news2

You can watch that part of the press conference here;

http://www.steephill.tv/tour-of-california/

LeMond is the only top rider from that era, and I think the only top rider ever who has won the TdF, about whom there are no doping rumours. Or at least I've never heard of any--correct me if I'm wrong. I find that amazing and worthy of admiration. He is well credible enough to be able to afford dealing out on this issue.

Armstrong has numerous psychological issues. I pity him a little, as even though he treats some people quite badly, he just comes across as lonely and his drivenness, not drive, veils the emptiness badly. He just doesn't seem to have anything else than competition, competition, competition.

i dont know about the whole doping malarky, but i dont like lance. hes far too smug and american for my taste. i hated the way when Beloki crashed on the descent and lance had to ride across a field, he got back on right in the middle of the road during a descent. what a wanker, he could have really fucked up there. maybe im too british and reserved, but i find alot of his celebrations to be well over the top. its all minor, but in cycling you like some people and not others.

I think you will find that that was an amazing peice of bike handling, and if you watch the clip on you tube, you will find that when lance rejoined the race he actually got on the bike at the side of the road.....and was 'congratulated' by a couple of riders

this thread demonstrates why lance is a money making machine for anyone who he works for.
He's a talking point for everyone

now I'm interested, read this!:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2009/feb09/feb13news2

Loved this:

Landis races California despite pre-race crash

By Mark Zalewski in Sacramento, California

Floyd Landis, the leader of the OUCH-Maxxis team, crashed during a training ride Thursday afternoon near the start of the Tour of California in Sacramento. His team reported in a press statement that the crash was not serious and that the former winner would start the prologue on Saturday.

"After evaluation by OUCH medical staff, his injuries were determined to be minor and limited to bruising," the statement said. "His surgically repaired hip is fine."

Landis skipped a pre-race press conference due to the crash.

The Tour of California stage race starts Saturday, February 14, and ends on the 22nd. Landis won the inaugural event in 2006.

I mean, what does he expect? ;)

LeMond is the only top rider from that era, and I think the only rider ever, about whom there are no doping rumours. Or at least I've never heard of any--correct me if I'm wrong.

chris boardman?

chris boardman?

You're quite right--I actually meant to say 'top rider who has won the TdF' but forgot to edit. There are of course plenty of clean riders around.

the drug used up until the late 1980s were mainly psychological in effect not physiological so the best guys still won.

I don't understand this - amphetamines effects are mainly physiological NOT psychological... are you talking about a different drug?

You can watch that part of the press conference here;

http://www.steephill.tv/tour-of-california/

Now that is an interesting clip. Armstrong actually sounds fairly rattled as the cogs are grinding how to answer the question (which he actually does). But the best bit is when we pleads for leniency for the dopers' re-socialisation and says something like 'we all make mistakes'. ;) There's pretty interesting stuff going on between the lines during that whole answer. And he really, really doesn't like being asked questions about this.

Paul Kimmage's comment that Armstrong is a cancer in the sport that has returned, however, is certainly tasteless and indefensible (gun + foot etc.), although I really don't think that Armstrong exploits it very well rhetorically. He could have made much more of it.

Actovegin wasn't banned at the time and isn't necessarily performance enhancing. Did the IOC remove it from the banned list?
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/more/news/2001/02/14/ioc_actovegin_ap/

hippy, you're clearly very well-informed about performance-enhancing substances. Don't try to pretend that you don't know the answer to this question. You're not fooling anyone. ;)

I'm undecided on Lance really, but at the end of the day he's still trying to earn shit loads of money for a worthy cause.

He still rides a Trek though...

Lance is as bent as a nine bob note - we all know it.

I think you will find that that was an amazing peice of bike handling, and if you watch the clip on you tube, you will find that when lance rejoined the race he actually got on the bike at the side of the road.....and was 'congratulated' by a couple of riders

Not for any bog standard cross racer, or continental pro racer that has finished Paris Roubaix or any other cobbled classic....just my opinion....did he look back before re-mounting?

Not for any bog standard cross racer, or continental pro racer that has finished Paris Roubaix or any other cobbled classic....just my opinion....did he look back before re-mounting?

of which lance is neither!!!!!!and yes he has a little glance, just before cutting across the other riders!!!!!

YouTube - Tour de France 2003 - Stage 9

He cuts across, but joins next to the support motorbike.

Bitter Europeans :P