Cyclist/Driver hatred

what are you basing this on? I've never met a cyclist who hated all cars *per se *merely because of the way some people drive them badly. Have you?

Personally met some, and heard from a few on this forum, obviously it's hard to tell whether they hate the car or driver, but from what has been said it's usually the car.

Way different. when driving a car **some people **get an increased sense of self esteem and of invulnerability. They feel isolated from the consequences of their actions, often because they are in a 1500kg re-enforced steel box. This isolation can encourage arrogant and even reckless behaviour, towards other road users.

I agree, also, some people when cycling think that they're above other road users.

of all the cyclists you've ever seen, how many ride like this? I think you answer this question when you say: "out of all the drivers we come across on the roads, the only one's we remember are the bad ones, we don't remember the good ones because they've done nothing memorable, they're just there on the roads, not causing any bother." This applies as much to cyclists than it does to car drivers.

Not a large number, but I have seen a few, I disagree with the cyclist comparison to my comment about cars though, there are a massive number of cars, and a relatively small number of cyclists, it's easier to pay attention to what they're doing.

in my opinion this is NOT true. Yes there are inconsiderate cyclists out there, but they are very few and far between. I probably see one inconsiderate cyclist a week, maybe less. I see probably a dozen **dangerously inconsiderate **car drivers a day on a 10 mile commute.

Admittedly I don't usually come across dangerously inconsiderate drives (barely any if you don't count Southall, but even the peds are dangerous when cycling through there), in the past 4 months cycling around London i'd say there's been around 5 incidents where I would call a driver dangerous.

for the reasons I've put forward above, and because arrogance, self-importance and sweeping stereotypes go hand in hand. Car drivers, by the nature of their chosen form of transport, choose to place themselves in a situation that encourages them to stereotype and be judgemental about cyclists (and peds/motorcyclist/other drivers). Some of them succumb to this. (Many do not). So is your point that we should be sympathetic to this behaviour?

The reverse is true with cyclists about cars, I originally posted that both parties contribute to this, yes, we should be sympathetic to this, and they should do the same.

Personal choice as to what this means. Sometimes I'll ride defensively, sometimes assertively. Sometime more than assertively. Whatever is required to keep me safe. If a car driver chooses to do something really dangerous, I will let him know in whichever way I choose to get the point home. This isn't inconsiderate to other cyclists - on the contrary, eventually the driver will get the message to look out for cyclists.

Agree with everything there.

I have no compunction about "adjusting the mirrors" of drivers who stray in to cycle-lanes without looking and without reason or buses who deliberately cut me up. (both of these things have happened to me in the last week when I have been riding defensively). If someone pulls a u-turn across me, trust me he is going to know about it. A gentle tap on the body of the car with the hand or foot usually gets the message across. Or, if I have time, I stop and (never angrily) talk to the driver about what they did and why it was dangerous.

Never done this myself but i'm sure it gets the message across.

Equally, I have no problem engaging with good drivers and letting them know I appreciate their considerate driving.

Same, even a wave or a thumbs up to thank them for letting you through or something like that can make all the difference to their attitude.