What do you use to store your stuff in?

I've tried panniers before and of course they are great for touring but found them horrible for in town. The bike becomes alot less flickable / manoeuvrable plus they also catch on things. Remember riding in town is very different to riding the length of a country. Most journeys will be under an hour and require a lot more tight maneuvers. Add on the difficulty of carrying a bike with panniers, taking them on and off, they just don't make sense for most people in the city IMO.

you have to take panniers off when you leave your bike. then what do you do with them? you have to lug them around with you, which is really inconvenient. messenger bags are just smarter for city cycling.

Crumpler Fux Deluxe

Berghaus rucksacks from Lillywhites. £60 down to £15

TheBrick (dying to change the spelling on that one ;)) has a point about panniers and bike handling.

I quite fancy one of these, as a compromise between bag and pannier. (mentioned earlier by VB)
Big ass saddle bag.

BTW SJScycles has loads of different bags, panniers, trailers etc.

Front rack....

yes! is it on the panasonic yet?

Well, I had originally intended on using an existing running bag - but I am finding sometimes I want the flexibility of carrying more. But just cannot stomach spending loads on a messenger bag - I just hate their appearance and despite what people say, there is no way they can be as practical as panniers - otherwise people would be touring in them.

Ok you seem to be really struggling with the entire cycling think but here goes.

Backpacks are OK to cycle with but not ideal. I've been using a 32L capacity LoweAlpine knock-off brought in Cambodia for $10 more than 2 years. Its fine for a commuting with clothes and shoes to and from work, sometimes I find it’s a bit small but that is mainly due to having massive (Size 14) shoes which take up half the bag. Pain in the arse to get stuff out of like keys and security pass to get out of the bike lock-up at work. The zips are starting to go and some of the inner pockets are tearing out, but overall happy with 2 years service from a bag I picked up for $10 in Cambodia. When I mountian bike I have a Camelback backpack but it only carries a 3l bladder and some tools and spares.

I’m on the list for one of Scott’s big Theo bags because I want something larger and with greater flexibility on the bike and that will last a long time. Messenger bags are very comfortable to ride with and when worn correctly should spread the weight evenly over your back and have more comfortable strap positioning than a backpack. They are also designed to allow easy access without removing the bag, which is not the sort of feature you really appreciate until you have it.

Panniers are great for touring or long distance rides when you need to carry a lot of gear and are not on and off the bike heaps. They are good because the weight is carried on the bike not on your back which makes a big difference to wrists, back and arse after a long day in the saddle. However having loaded panniers on a bike make a big difference to the handling and you will really notice it if you’re riding fixed and have to get out of the saddle to get up a hill. They are also a pain in the arse to take on and off if you are not spending all day just riding along (i.e touring).

Brick - I have no problems with tight manouvers with panniers. I still run the same tight gaps as I used to with a backpack and can twitch in and out of spaces as well as anyone else I've seen on the road. I think it has a lot to do with what you're used to doing.

As for the inconvenience. I just lift the bag off and hang it from my shoulder from a strap, much like one might do with a messenger bag. I'm not sure how this is more inconvenient than a messenger bag. I guess you do have to lift the bag up a bit to get it on the shoulder but that kind of effort barely seems worth mentioning.

I use backpacks with waist and chest straps - one is a Pearl Izumi and one smaller Altura one

Picked one of these up off eBay for £30... not bad really (possibly good, but I'm no courier bag expert?)... certainly does the job for a general purpose runaround:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BNWT-KARRIMOR-Universal-Courier-20-Messenger-Bag-2-Cols_W0QQitemZ110324073216QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Sports_Leisure_Cycling_Bags_Panniers_SR?hash=item110324073216&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1301%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

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good-ish bags. straps are thin though and they're not that comfy. but good vfm.

Brick - I have no problems with tight manouvers with panniers. I still run the same tight gaps as I used to with a backpack and can twitch in and out of spaces as well as anyone else I've seen on the road. I think it has a lot to do with what you're used to doing.

As for the inconvenience. I just lift the bag off and hang it from my shoulder from a strap, much like one might do with a messenger bag. I'm not sure how this is more inconvenient than a messenger bag. I guess you do have to lift the bag up a bit to get it on the shoulder but that kind of effort barely seems worth mentioning.

Sorry Seldom Killer I prob came across a bit too negative. They clearly do work for some people. As for the maneuvering, the rear of your bike always cuts a corner so when going through a gap on a corner that it when I most often find them catching. Plus I can't bunny hop a bike with panniers, but as you say it depends what you do bla bla bla.

It's all gone a bit c+ init?

Speaking of which my Mum bought me a c+ for Christmas. They even had a red light debate in the magazine. Keeping it real.

I keep my stuff in here

Ok you seem to be really struggling with the entire cycling think but here goes.

Backpacks are OK to cycle with but not ideal. I've been using a 32L capacity LoweAlpine knock-off brought in Cambodia for $10 more than 2 years. Its fine for a commuting with clothes and shoes to and from work, sometimes I find it’s a bit small but that is mainly due to having massive (Size 14) shoes which take up half the bag. Pain in the arse to get stuff out of like keys and security pass to get out of the bike lock-up at work. The zips are starting to go and some of the inner pockets are tearing out, but overall happy with 2 years service from a bag I picked up for $10 in Cambodia. When I mountian bike I have a Camelback backpack but it only carries a 3l bladder and some tools and spares.

I’m on the list for one of Scott’s big Theo bags because I want something larger and with greater flexibility on the bike and that will last a long time. Messenger bags are very comfortable to ride with and when worn correctly should spread the weight evenly over your back and have more comfortable strap positioning than a backpack. They are also designed to allow easy access without removing the bag, which is not the sort of feature you really appreciate until you have it.

Panniers are great for touring or long distance rides when you need to carry a lot of gear and are not on and off the bike heaps. They are good because the weight is carried on the bike not on your back which makes a big difference to wrists, back and arse after a long day in the saddle. However having loaded panniers on a bike make a big difference to the handling and you will really notice it if you’re riding fixed and have to get out of the saddle to get up a hill. They are also a pain in the arse to take on and off if you are not spending all day just riding along (i.e touring).

But what about back sweat?

Cycling is a sweaty business.

But what about back sweat?

I sweat when riding no matter what, so a bit of back sweat isn't really an issue. I have good showers at work so always have a wash when I get in. For short trips like to the shops then back sweat really isn't an issue and if I think it will be an issue I just take some deo and a change of shirt.

My other concern with panniers is that I notice myself getting pissed off even with mudguards - my toes keep catching them when I try to balance at lights.

Panniers must make balancing harder still and I agree, they MUST make it feel more sluggish.

But what about back sweat?

Don't cycle in the summer.

I thought you already decided against panniers?
1) difficult to swing bike to climb hills
2) carry too much stuff around?
3) no quick access
4) can obstruct movement in tight traffic
5) HTFU

Do you not own a rucksack already?
If so - what do you find the shortcomings are- capacity? gayness? not looking like a cyclist? sweaty back?

I just use a standard Eastpack satchel. I broke the clips which attach the straps to the bag but if you just thread the bit on the strap through the bit on the bag, you get an indestructable, cheap, washing machine friendly bag which has a pretty big capacity for its size and if you empty it, it folds up and could fit in the back pocket of your hi-vi jacket.

Don't cycle in the summer.

Surely you get back sweat even in this weather from Catford?

I did today.

I thought you already decided against panniers?
1) difficult to swing bike to climb hills
2) carry too much stuff around?
3) no quick access
4) can obstruct movement in tight traffic
5) HTFU

Do you not own a rucksack already?
If so - what do you find the shortcomings are- capacity? gayness? not looking like a cyclist? sweaty back?

Capacity mainly. And I worry about having a backpack any bigger.

hmm... if you can come to wests I can lend you a large timbuk2 for a week.

this thread is trying my patience, you slag of courier bags but are fast realising that they are the best mix of capacity and portability, not just some hipster affection.

if you cant afford one now, save up till you can, or buy one second hand, you have a bag at the moment which by your own admission is doing a half decent job, so make do untill you can find one that is cheap enough or have the money for a decent one.

Do not touch pravs sack.

It smells and is dirty.