(More or less) car-free lifestyles--chat about (more or less) car-free lifestyles

Post here about your (more or less) car-free lifestyle and why you love it. This is not about purity. A lot of people have cars and bikes. How do you organise your transport--what sort of trips do you use your bike(s)(sssssssss) for, what sort of trips do you use public transport for, what trips do you use a car for, how often do you walk? What are your reasons?

And for those who don't want to post, I've added a poll, which I hope will cover most of the possible options. If your exact modus operandi isn't there, tick one of the 'other' options.

[Edit: I'll probably change the poll or remove it soon, as it would become incredibly complicated if it covered all the options. I think I've had an idea how it can be simpler. I kid you not. ;) )

**THREAD RULES: No abusing people who make a car journey where you'd make a bike journey, pretty please. No abusing people who make a bike journey where you'd make a car journey, either. ;) Actually, no abusing people at all. No off-forum hate mail or VB will fingerprint it for your DNA and ban you based on the retina scan on your profile. Or something. Let's have some good, clean fun with this.
**
Remember: If you have a good case, you can be calm and assertive about it. If you get all personal and flustered and sweary you've probably lost the argument before you've said a thing ... if you don't have a good case, don't insist on it too strongly and be prepared to take a step back.

Could you add public transport to this as well, since as not a car owner is the only alternative for me.
The only use for a car in London IMO would be to travel outside London, or to transport items or family/friends.

Could you add public transport to this as well, since as not a car owner is the only alternative for me.
The only use for a car in London IMO would be to travel outside London, or to transport items or family/friends.

Sure, it's in the poll. I'll edit the initial post to reflect this, too.

If I didn't live in London I'd have a car, but as a bit of weekend fun. The bike is the main transport based item.

I'm not meaning any disrespect Oliver...but what with all the problems that have surrounded the car thread in misc and meaningless why start another car related thread...and in the general section too.
We've been arguing all along that the car thread should be allowed cos it's in misc and meaningless and then you start this.
And to make matters worse, what is that incredibly long winded, confusing poll going to achieve? if it shows up that cars are used more than bikes what does that achieve....or vice versa.
All this thread is gonna do is get more peoples backs up and reflect badly on the other car thread...the old "now look what you car lovers have done" is gonna start.
It's undoing all the work that has been done in getting the car thread accepted.
And trying to post rules about what people can and can't do is never a good thing.
The way i see it, almost everybody who is driving cars is already posting in the car thread, so surely the place to get the best results to this poll would be on that thread, as i'm assuming that the people not posting in the car thread don't drive cars.
Sorry if i'm being negative here but i really don't see what is to be gained from this thread.
But if i'm wrong and everybody continues to post here then fair play to you all.

I used to have a car, still have a motorbike, which I don't ride as much as I should, and I mostly use it as an alternative to getting the bus into work. I'm going to get involved with the whole streetcar thing, http://www.streetcar.co.uk/, £50 to join and costs as little as a six quid an hour since I have to collect family from the airport on a regular basis, and every so often I have a dirty hankering to buy big shit, which you just can't get back to your house strapped to your back.

Otherwise its biking all the way. Been doing a lot of walking as well recently, and now everytime I use bus or the tube, I'm the happiest mofo on there, obviously I'm happy generally but you get the idea. Just reminds me why I love riding the bike to get round town.

anyway remember good people: hate the hate!!!!

does this car look like its yawning?

i walk, thats not on there... like walk/bike 50/50

I don't have a car but I have a license, mostly for future use, says if I want to go to the South of France, I'd get an old Renault 5 or summat for £200, insure 3rd party, use it for holiday, then hopefully sell it for £100-150, much cheaper than hiring cars.

I'm not meaning any disrespect Oliver...but what with all the problems that have surrounded the car thread in misc and meaningless why start another car related thread...and in the general section too.

Hm, you may be right, I suppose I used 'general' as I meant this thread to be more about bikes than about cars. But I'd have no problem at all with it being moved to M&M if people/VB feel it should be.

We've been arguing all along that the car thread should be allowed cos it's in misc and meaningless and then you start this.

Well, it's meant to be about '(more or less) car-free lifestyles. I'm sure the style of debate will mature. It's not meant to dredge up bad feelings but simply to celebrate something else.

Most people use many modes. The idea was just that people might want to post about how they manage to avoid using cars too much. Perhaps it'll work, perhaps not--I don't know. Perhaps it'll foster understanding that transport choices aren't always black and white and easy.

And to make matters worse, what is that incredibly long winded, confusing poll going to achieve? if it shows up that cars are used more than bikes what does that achieve....or vice versa.

I have no idea what the outcome will be--that will be interesting, won't it? I'm certainly curious.

You certainly have a point about the long-windedness of the poll. I was thinking about that as I was adding options and it just kept ballooning up. An easier choice of combinations/not trying to ask too much might work better. I suspect making it a multiple choice poll with people being able to tick all the modes they use might also be better, but then again perhaps a little boring.

All this thread is gonna do is get more peoples backs up and reflect badly on the other car thread...the old "now look what you car lovers have done" is gonna start.
It's undoing all the work that has been done in getting the car thread accepted.

Well, this isn't meant to be a 'car thread', so I'm not sure why you worry that there may be complaints of 'look what you car lovers have done'? I must admit I don't follow your reasoning here, but perhaps your feeling for this is better and your prediction accurate--to be honest, I have no idea what the likely reaction will be.

And trying to post rules about what people can and can't do is never a good thing.

You're quite right, but I thought asking people not to post abuse would be fairly sensible? I didn't mean to come across as some kind of moderator, as of course I'm only a thread starter. Sorry if it comes across in this way. I may be naive in hoping that being positive about reducing car use will not degenerate into being negative about people who have to make other choices for whatever reason, but I hope I'm not.

The way i see it, almost everybody who is driving cars is already posting in the car thread, so surely the place to get the best results to this poll would be on that thread, as i'm assuming that the people not posting in the car thread don't drive cars.

It would be up to wiganwill to put a poll on the car thread if he wants to, as he started it, but again I wasn't really thinking about polling the contributors to that thread especially (much as surely people who answer polls needn't be posters to a thread?) I was interested in everybody's opinion, really.

Sorry if i'm being negative here but i really don't see what is to be gained from this thread.
But if i'm wrong and everybody continues to post here then fair play to you all.

Yes, let's see, if it all goes horribly wrong, we can still kill the thread and try something that's thought through better!

Thanks for the input! I'll keep it in mind and will take appropriate action if necessary.

i walk, thats not on there... like walk/bike 50/50

Yes, I thought about that when I was doing the poll, but as Scott has pointed out, it is already unwieldy as it is. You're right, you have no option for yourself! Sorry. I'll see what more people think and then I guess I should probably change the poll. Let's give it a day, perhaps a seasoned pollster will turn up who knows what options would work best!

I'm not meaning any disrespect Oliver...but what with all the problems that have surrounded the car thread in misc and meaningless why start another car related thread...and in the general section too.
We've been arguing all along that the car thread should be allowed cos it's in misc and meaningless and then you start this.
And to make matters worse, what is that incredibly long winded, confusing poll going to achieve? if it shows up that cars are used more than bikes what does that achieve....or vice versa.
All this thread is gonna do is get more peoples backs up and reflect badly on the other car thread...the old "now look what you car lovers have done" is gonna start.
It's undoing all the work that has been done in getting the car thread accepted.
And trying to post rules about what people can and can't do is never a good thing.
The way i see it, almost everybody who is driving cars is already posting in the car thread, so surely the place to get the best results to this poll would be on that thread, as i'm assuming that the people not posting in the car thread don't drive cars.
Sorry if i'm being negative here but i really don't see what is to be gained from this thread.
But if i'm wrong and everybody continues to post here then fair play to you all.

Scott, I think (hope) that most people are a bit more grown up than that. And you talk about the "car thread" as if it's a child that's just been born...

reaches for the hatemail :p

I don't get out much.

No option on there for me.

Oliver the poll is a bit confusing to me. would it be better with percentages?

In terms of my lifestyle, almost all of my journeys are less than 10 miles, so it's usually only carrying a lot of weight that defeats me. I lived in west london for quite a while and moved east only a couple of years ago. Oddly, I'm probably fitter now than I was as I'm cycling for all of my journeys instead of just my commute.

hmm..the poll is long winded. ive done traffic/parking studies before and the survey sheets that went out with that was a lot worse (try breaking it into diff time/day). not surprised tho, ive seen OliverS' very very detailed posts...he would have trouble setting up a simpler poll ;)

for the record, my vote...option not avail up there: mostly bike. some public transport. every now and then i hire a car for far away places (when car is more economical than the stupidly expensive trains)

i usually ride, apart from the occasional days i have to wear a suit, or when i know there's going to be epic drinking (don't like riding pissed). other than that, public transport. i also use PT if i'm going somewhere with my girl, because she doesn't have a bike.

as i mentioned in the car thread, i own a car in australia, one of my mates rents it off me for $100 a month. i have only felt the need to have a car in the UK on a couple of occasions, and just borrowed one from friends (moving house etc).

car-free lifestye is pretty easy for me in london, and i like not having to worry about parking, servicing, insurance, scratches, speeding fines (although i've never been fined for speeding in 10 years of driving!).

the last time I used a car, I got a ticket. Was caught on cctv at holburn, doing an illegal right turn in to a bus lane, running a red light, in one simultaneous move*

I was secretly quite glad that I can do this on a bike.

• no pedestrians or other cars, ficticious or real, were injured.
  

It seems that some people on this forum have too much energy and not enough threads to keep them busy, so that they start sending hate mail just because someone likes cars or because there's a car thread on a bike forum.

Was there really a need to open with that? I missed all that car bolloxs thing, so don't know what went on, but let sleeping dogs lie and all

Remember: If you have a good case, you can be calm and assertive about it. If you get all personal and flustered and sweary you've probably lost the argument before you've said a thing ... if you don't have a good case, don't insist on it too strongly and be prepared to take a step back.

In this order - Mostly Space hopper, Mostly fixie, some teleportation

But in the past year i have taken the occasional train when carrying heavy bags and Taxi when i can get work to pay because i am too pissed to cycle

There isn't an option for "mostly bike some tank"

:-)

http://www.spacehijackers.org/html/projects/freehackney/index.html

http://www.spacehijackers.org/html/projects/dsei07/tuesday.html

god, not another car thread after the last one caused so much controversy. What are you trying to do here? create even more aggro?
Really poor judgement call.

I have nothing against cars and car chat, but surely you realized that A LOT of the people here do. Why fuel this even more. Couldn't you have waited at least a week till it calms down?

My head hurts from all the bullshit on this forum over the last couple of weeks, why do you have to refer to it here again.

think next time

http://www.streetcarforums.com/

toodle pip

Scott, I think (hope) that most people are a bit more grown up than that. And you talk about the "car thread" as if it's a child that's just been born...

reaches for the hatemail :p

12 Hours Ago by fred

Blog Entries: 1

is this still about cars ?

fucksake

Clearly people aren't a bit more grown up than that Fred...you felt it necessary to post that in the car thread last night hoping to stir up trouble...you weren't grown up enough to keep away from a thread that has no interest to you.

As Gil scott-heron once said..."If you're gonna speak for a whole generation, you better know enough to handle it's education"

Maybe it's time you started practising what you preach eh?
And the car thread isn't a baby, but it's been surrounded by controversy which has now pretty much died down...but unfortunately it seems you still feel you can stir up a bit more.

Where's the some bike some 'ski and pulk' option?

1 Attachment

Scott - sorry if you felt that was provocative. actually it was meant as a lighthearted observation on the fact that it's not derailed. It was the forum equivalent of sticking my head around the door to see if you guys had changed the subject. I don't really see how that is provocative, but the fact that some people do says something in itself.

respect for quoting Gill-Scott Heron tho.