Why is fixed better on wet?

i guess it is mainly because you wet braking surfaces (rim-brakepad) is not as important when riding fixed.

don't think the reason for riding fixed during winter training is because it makes you work harder. quite the opposite. you want to maintain/build up base fitness during winter training so riders limit themselves to low gears. there is old school thinking of not riding in the big ring up to a certain point in the season or not having a 12T sprocket on the block...

This last bit is true to a degree...if you had your rear brake applied it owuld most likely be worse than cornering on fixed.

i agree. if the rear wheel slips you are far more likely to catch it again as the wheel is still turning (if your legs are) but with a freewheel it just stops. also a bit of rear brake could lock the wheel but resisting even if it causes a skid will get traction quickly if your legs/wheel is still turning it's a bit like engine braking or the hill descent thingy in landrovers where touching the brake results in a slide but allowing the engine to turn the wheels slowly let it descend on slippery slopes.

A link from this very forum......

http://www.bikeradar.com/fitness/article/training-get-your-fitness-fixed--18458

+1 on the engine breaking comparison Mr Smith

I have no technical info to back this up, but for me because you are directly connected to the rear wheelspeed, you get more feed back and info, which often gives you that split second you need to make an adjustment before you slide out.

I live in Norway, and while I accept that braking with your legs gives you direct feedback on the quality of the road/ tire contact (which hand brakes dont), I would'nt ride fixed during the winter if you paid me.

Its pretty much for the same reasons, that I have a fixed for road use, but am building a SS for off-road use. Sometimes I need to adjust pedal position or simply freeze my body (no pun intended). Now people ride fixed off-road, tis true, but these people have a level of bike control far beyond my own (and possibly bigger balls).

Hopefully next year I'll be riding a newly built SS 29r during the winter.

Cant really ever see myself going 'fixed on ice' though.

No pricey derailleurs to fuck up in the wet, gritty winter season.

Thinking about it for me, with brakes you have to scrub speed before you turn in the wet. If you misjudge the speed and are too hot you then have to scrub more while leaned in you run the risk of the rear wheel breaking away. You're far more in control of your speed throughout the turn and because of that run less risk of disrupting the grip of the tyre through quicking slowing it. Not scientific, just a thought I had the other day blasting through a turn

loads of reasons.

maintenance. no replacing of chain + cassette twice in winter.

i dont see many people doing this though. i see more people on quest audax bikes for example with full guards plugging in the base miles.

i recently went from SS to gears. gears FTW

I must confess that I would'nt make it home without those super spinny gears for climbing. This might be a sign that my pedal stroke is not as smooth as it could be (pretty sure it is'nt TBH). I find that my back wheel looses traction on each down stroke when climbing, in anything but a very spinny gear.

Thought popped into my head the other day, while climbing a snow covered path (slip, grip, slip, grip...etc.). What about one of those biopace chainsets? The ones which are non-circular to give a smoother drive from the pedal stroke. Would'nt that be just the ticket for a winter bike?

OK, so a quick check with Sheldon shows that its not an original thought.

*The mountain biker particularly benefits, because the Biopace design somewhat smooths out the delivery of power to the rear wheel. In climbing on loose surfaces, the limiting factor is often traction. The rear wheel tends to break loose during the maximum power phase of the pedal stroke, wasting most of the cyclist's energy. The Biopace chainwheel works like a storage device, storing power during the main power phase of the stroke as the feet accelerate, then delivering the stored power to the rear wheel during the "dead center" phase when the cranks are near vertical. The same average amount of power is delivered to the rear wheel, but in a smoother, less pulsating flow. All the energy is used to propel the bike forward, without the high-power peaks spinning the rear tire or causing the bike to "wheelie.*"

Much like many others here I find I can recover from skids (strangly even front wheel skids?) on my fixed that I wouldn't manage on my geared.

As for developing good pedalling style, I don't think anyone else has mentioned how riding fixed forces you both to get stronger, to power up hills, and increase cadence, when going down hill.

Before I rode fixed, I think I had the power, but not the cadence, and while I had gears, I didn't need to improve my cadence, I'd just keep going up gears. very rarely getting any practice at spinning my feet (only in the top gear, when I generally was already going fast enough at 60 revs). And people who are the opposite do the same to never use power, using their gears to keep spinning.

Basically most people need rules to get them out of their comfort zone.

The other reason is surely, that you get more exercise on a fixed, so you get more of a workout in less time. When it's cold you don't want to be out there as long.
does make you wonder why roadies don't ride huge heavy badly made bikes, surely they'd get even more exercise?

Thinking about it for me, with brakes you have to scrub speed before you turn in the wet. If you misjudge the speed and are too hot you then have to scrub more while leaned in you run the risk of the rear wheel breaking away.

That's more about technique though. On geared, if you're hitting a corner too hard, you brake but pull your weight over to the side whilst keeping the bike upright. I puts in a lot more drift but should bring you out just fine. Note: do not attempt this on a tandem, someone will die, probably you.

does make you wonder why roadies don't ride huge heavy badly made bikes, surely they'd get even more exercise?

There's exercise and then there's bad exercise. I do know a few roadies who go for a spring tour before the race season and swear that hauling an 80lb bike over long distances helps them. I know I'll rarely be as fit as I was after cycling across Canada.

Many of the touring and audax cyclists go fixed in the winter because...

1. They're not racing at this time of year, so it's a good time to train up. Fixed is good for that.
   
2. The maintenance is kept minimal, with no road crap getting in your cassette.
   
3. You sweat less than riding fixed in the summer! (i know... that surprised me when i heard that).
   
   

I don't think it's got a lot to do with the 'performance' benefits of fixed in the wet or anything.

I had Biopace on a mountain bike road hybrid. Honestly, I couldn't tell it was there, even after stepping straight off a non-Biopace bike. My gf has that chainset now, gets mystified at guys asking her how they go and is it easier. She doesn't know what they are talking about. I don't think I do either. I think Biopace was yet another good idea on paper that doesn't quite work out in practice but isn't detrimental either.

more control over the bike id imagine
you cant just grab hold of your brakes in fear and skid everywhere

That's more about technique though. On geared, if you're hitting a corner too hard, you brake but pull your weight over to the side whilst keeping the bike upright. I puts in a lot more drift but should bring you out just fine. Note: do not attempt this on a tandem, someone will die, probably you.

Sure, agreed. And a geared bike should be able to get through a corner quicker, but I think you feel more in control through the drivetrain on a fixed, and that braking can bring less predictable modulation (I'm thinking that's the right word), so brakes will grab at the wheel during the cornering. Not saying the wheel will lock, but the deceleration will be faster than controlling the speed through the drivetrain and more likely to step the rear wheel out. In the wet you're more likely to struggle to get it back in. Again, just my take on it from my experience

Thinking about it for me, with brakes you have to scrub speed before you turn in the wet. If you misjudge the speed and are too hot you then have to scrub more while leaned in you run the risk of the rear wheel breaking away. You're far more in control of your speed throughout the turn and because of that run less risk of disrupting the grip of the tyre through quicking slowing it. Not scientific, just a thought I had the other day blasting through a turn

If you run in too hot your more likely to loose the front than rear. The way to slow in the corner is a smidgen of rear brake, or (when riding fixed) slow your legs a little.

They same result is possible.

Your assertion that there's less risk of disrupting the grip of the (rear) tyre through quickly slowing, assumes you don't skid the rear accidentally when slowing your legs, and therefore that it's a more subtle braking method than a lever brake.

It's a question of how good a rider you are on the brakes... and how good you are fixed.

When you brake to hard on a freewheel bike and your rear wheel locks up, its quite difficult to remain in control, you can very easily slip out to the side and fall over.

Similarily this can occur when pressing front brake, that too can slip out.

On a fixed wheel bike the majority of the speed modulation is done with your drivetrain, so less front brake.

And the incidences where your rear wheel locks up it is much more easy to control, and even use to ones advantage. (note new forumengers asking "how to skid" as they beleive it to be the fundamental form of decelleration)

This is just one reason.

Other might be, it woul be hazardous & simply unpleasant to train at the intensities & speed of summer multi geared riding during the winter.

Fixed wheel riding might not go as fast, but it is an equal or greater workout even at low speeds, which also improves pedalling technique.

Lastly, it means you dont have to get your fancy geared bike all dirty & wet.

Those are the reasons I can think off.

Everything +

Pedal strike, the subconcious thought of pedal striking means you keep the bike more upright = less chance of skidding out.

On a fixed wheel bike the majority of the speed modulation is done with your drivetrain, so less front brake.

I think that is what I was trying to say, except I spent five paragraphs (est) trying to say it. Need to adjust my edit node

It's not. Gears are better. Fixed is shit.

Fixed is safer in the winter as you dont need to rely on your front brake so much. Most accidents are caused by pulling too hard on the front brake on wet/icy roads, especially when cornering.

As you are able to regulate your speed nice and smoothly with your legs, the bike handles better

Off topic but,

My first bike was a beat up peugeot racer, the rear brake didn't work too well (not at all really), as a consequence I learnt to perfect braking with the front and not rely at all on the back brake at all.

Subsequently though I find it really hard to pull endos on my mountain bike, I always want to release the brake.

I find a back brake is only any good at controlling the speed going downhill (road) for obvious reasons.

Though I have found that if you are going down something steep (offroad) on a moutain bike using the rear to control your speed the back will lock up quite easily, so you end up feathering the front brake with your arse over the back wheel.

BTW I don't ride fixed (Yet).

Though I have found that if you are going down something steep (offroad) on a moutain bike using the rear to control your speed the back will lock up quite easily, so you end up feathering the front brake with your arse over the back wheel.

BTW I don't ride fixed (Yet).

I enjoy doing that but *with *the back wheel locked up, and let the bike skid over whatever rocks n crap in the way.

And why do you want to pull endo's?

I enjoy doing that but *with *the back wheel locked up, and let the bike skid over whatever rocks n crap in the way.

And why do you want to pull endo's?

Twisted Endo + Trackstand = Quick U-Turn.

Something like this ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Bp8X2g1AR4

But on a mountain bike

Though I am pretty rubbish at performing bike tricks.

"Traditionally, road racing and club cyclists would use a fixed wheel bicycle for training during the winter months, generally using a relatively low gear ratio, believed to help develop a good pedalling style." - wiki

but why?

believed to help develop a good pedalling style.