HGV-Cyclist incidents

@Julianmere. Why not have an entire programme on freight and the traffic impacts on city centres, motorways, accidents, noise pollution, operation mermaid etc...

Great suggestion!

How about looking at canals and trains for freight, for which they were primarily designed?

I saw loads of boat freight when I was in holland recently, it made such good sense.

HTFU?

Heh heh...yeah yer probably right to be honest. But more seriously you have made me think about the use of filter lanes and ASLs in a way I havent' before I guess.

Fuck, that's about as close as I get to admitting I'm wrong..alright!!!

We just want you to be safe :)

This thread has been stuck... please give help where you can, especially in propagating the message more widely (other cycling forums, blogs, etc) or by responding if you can.

Please don't derail this anymore..
ASLs are relevant to the issue, but not to the OP's request.
This is a sticky because it is perceived to be an important topic.
/selfimportantforumpolice

Quite often the ASLs dont have a feeder lane. Just the box. To be honest I ride into it from wherever I am coming from (the safest gap the traffic has left me).

fixed, that how I like to roll.

I agree with you Provenrad but if we have helped one person to learn safe road positioning I think this conversation was useful.

Fine...back on track then

Julian,

I know that this has been covered in other tv productions but Cemex have some of the best cycle friendly vehicles on the road. The story behind it is quite interesting - equally tragic and uplifting. I'm sure that they would be happy to speak with you.

good post JackT, very informative. those stats on lorries in the capital are shameful, I really didnt think it would be that bad. as asked above I'd be interested in knowing how to find out about such meetings.

Panorama must have a pretty sizable audience and would be an excellent platform to show the side of cycling that most people don't see - the only press we seem to get is light-jumping-pavement-riding-rule-breaking kind.

I read about the Cemex being ahead of EU legislation with their trucks, but I've searched around and haven't found the story behind it. Got a link?

Thanks for the Portsmouth and Edinburgh leads guys.

I read about the Cemex being ahead of EU legislation with their trucks, but I've searched around and haven't found the story behind it. Got a link?

Thanks for the Portsmouth and Edinburgh leads guys.

I think ITV covered it in something they did a while back. Long story short: A woman's cyclist daughter was killed by a left turning Cemex truck. She bought stock in Cemex and then brought up their vehicle road safety policy as an item at their shareholder AGM and basically wouldn't take no for an answer. Strong woman.

This article on the BBC mentions it

Here's a useful link:

http://www.brake.org.uk/index.php?p=609

The Bike Show (a radio show I present each week on Resonance FM) featured the HGV issue for the entirety of the show this week. Obviously in a half hour there's only so much one can say but I hope that it's interesting.

Featuring Cynthia Barlow (who lost her adult daughter in 2000, to a cement mixer), chair of Road Peace. Cynthia has done more to push the HGV/cyclist issue than anyone out there, particularly in relation to construction vehicles.

Also Barry Mason, chair of Southwark Cyclists, who attended the inquest last week into the death of Nga Diep, a 33 year old woman, run over while cycling by a skip lorry in Bermondsey earlier this year.

Listen to the show here:

http://thebikeshow.net/2008/10/14/13-october-2008-emergency-lorries-killing-cyclists/

Find Barry's harrowing notes on the Diep inquest here:

http://thebikeshow.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/nga_diep_inquest.rtf

To the original poster's question. Try a Google News search for all years, on the terms "hgv" "cyclist" "death" and you'll find more material than you could possibly fit in a single edition of Panorama.

I'm aware that this thread is about HGVs, but in response to the questions about the law and ASLs, according to the Explanatory Memorandum of the London Local Authorities and Transport for London (No. 2) Bill
**
"technically it is an offence for a cyclist to enter the stopping area if there is no cycle lane marked on the highway that feeds into the stopping area." **

Clause 28 of this Bill would correct this, it is explained in the memorandum:

"The clause would have the effect of clarifying that where there is an advanced stopping area but no feeder lane, then no offence is committed by cyclists who enter the stopping area at a red light signal."

I can't figure out what happens under the new proposed law if there IS a feeder land but the cyclist opts not to use it, as I often do, because it's safer to enter the ASL by going around the right of the line of traffic.

I believe this Bill is still on its way through Parliament.

Sorry to forum police but I thought seeing as a I was posting most of the answer...

You could say it's actually very closely linked to the HGV issue since these feeder lanes put cyclists at exactly the worst place to be - in front and to the left of a potentially left turning HGV. As we know, drivers just can't see down and to the left from their cabs, unless they have a special downward facing mirror.

Thanks for posting up the info Jack. Is there a list of people who attended?
I had to go out of the country for work on the day and knew in advance, so did not try to get an invite, but otherwise would have attended.

BBCR4 are also interested in following this up. I have links for a jouranlist if anyone is interested, but they feel that they will wait until Spring (this was the team who did the report for You and Yours). I think if we keep up the pressure we will get some high profile coverage and soon.

As for more accidents in the am I would have thought the most likely cause is that most peaople have to be at work by 9am, so are in a hurry, whereas people on their way home generally don't have to be home at a specific time, so I'd have thought accidents more likely due to fatigue, innattention rather than deliberately hurrying/not caring.

That's certainly my experience aggro in the morning, stupidity in the evening.

you know what would be useful? to have another traffic light soley for cyclists only - let the bike go first and then 3 second the vehicle.

more expensive than an ASL thought, but letting cyclist go allowed them to be clear of danger being sandwiched by vehicle and kerbs.

During the Q&A I raised the question of underreporting of minor collisions involving cyclists. I said that while a minor collision involving two motor vehicles would usually end up being recorded by the police, for insurance purposes at the very least, this was not the case for collisions involving cyclists. I recounted my own experience and that of friends of mine that there is a road culture of checking that the cyclist isn’t dead or very seriously injured and then just driving off without any swapping of names, insurance companies or reporting to the police. Inspector Dave Aspinall suggested that unless it is an extremely minor collision it is always a good idea to call the police. In the City of London he said that a police officer could be expected to arrive very rapidly at the scene but said that this was less likely elsewhere in London. As a cyclist involved in a collision it can be very confusing and upsetting. You often get a rush of adrenalin, its not always apparent whether you’ve been injured (especially any concussion) or if the bicycle has been damaged. Inspector Aspinall stressed that any collision in which a motor vehicle causes damage to property or injury to a person is a police matter and that cyclists should not hesitate to call the police to the scene of all but the most innocuous of incidents, even if it isn’t clear what happened or who - if anyone - was to blame.

my personal experience of this:
http://www.londonfgss.com/thread11372.html

you know what would be useful? to have another traffic light soley for cyclists only - let the bike go first and then 3 second the vehicle.

more expensive than an ASL thought, but letting cyclist go allowed them to be clear of danger being sandwiched by vehicle and kerbs.

Exactly my thoughts too.
The ASL is often placed too far forward, so you can no longer see the lights, or the stop line is moved back, so the cars just park up by the lights as if it wasn't there anyway.

Why not move the car stop line back, add the ASL in front and convert the main lights to cycle specific lights (reduce the height, change the lens to show green/red bike) and add a second set of lights for cars at the back of the ASL?

there was a chap oop north killed 10 days ago - on the a65 near settle, yorks. ahh but not hgv. car and caravan i think. what does it matter. still killed / murdered on british roads.

he was an organiser of cycle races and meets. time trials and all that. well known in british cycling he was.

details are / were on the british cycling website.

oh and good luck with your programme.

anything to get the issues of road deaths on the agenda is ok by me.

julianemre,
just heard about this on the radio recently, about increase in accidents involving cyclists in Southampton:

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/3787850.Cyclists_take_to_streets_to_increase_road_safety/

Hi guys... apologies for allowing this thread go neglected, not often I find myself not spending enough time on the internet. Thanks again to those who stickied the thread, and equally so to everyone who posted up...

As for the programme itself, it's not to be happening, though the producer who wants to make it was resurrecting the research this year, having not come up with enough last year, and so I think we can hope there is a long-term interest in the thing being made. As for the reasons this time around, the whole wing-mirror legislation change for 2009 seems to be on its way to becoming common knowledge amongst cyclists, but additional to that there also seems to be the criminalisation of death by careless driving, whereas now one can do whatever they want in their many-hundred kilogram car so long as they are not being 'dangerous'. Basically, with the government putting some changes in place, the question doesn't really (I'm presuming) have that much media clout until these policy alterations prove ineffective... hopefully that won't be found too overwhelmingly the case.

Anyhow... thanks once more to all of you... see you around the roads, take care.

Interesting?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7718691.stm

Toodle pip

Interesting?
Toodle pip

Noodle lip...

They have a Lorry parked in Spital Square at the moment apparently. Cyclists can get into the cabin and appreciate the blind spots. I think it is great that something is at last being done about this

This morning at a busy junction in Notting Hill the cops were handing out HGV awareness booklets to cyclists and HGV drivers, at first I thought they were ticketing red light jumpers and when he started walking towards me I thought fuck what have I done!
We had a chat about passing trucks on the left etc, there was a good turn out of coppers and what looked like a politician. I will scan in the booklet later, It was good to see this kind of action being done.