Going back to uni to study computers

Hi all,

I know that there are quite a few IT guys here so I'm wondering if any of you could offer me some advice. I'm thinking of going back to university to do a degree in computer science as I'm almost 40, just had a baby and need a bigger flat. I teach yoga, build bike wheels and do freelance web design but even though it's enough to maintain my lifestyle it's not enough to move up the property ladder.

What advice? Which university to attend. Thoughts on course content and job prospects. Seems like java and C# are the ones to learn but is a lot of the work being outsourced nowadays? I don't want to have to relocate from London but will do if the course is really good and has great prospects. I have a BSc in Chemisty from about 20 years ago which I reckon should be fine as far as entry requirements go.

Ah, the end of the laid back lifestyle, but have to think about my pension.

Thanks in advance.

I suspect Comp. sci. is not a great idea given the number of graduates (one of the largest course groups - but shrinking for a reason) and I suspect there is some level of unemployment here - all our comp sci / programmers are coming from overseas.

Or, if it just a means to make more money then how about a course which leads to a profession? E.g. Optometry? If I had my time again optometry is a pretty good one - nice well paid job at the end of a reasonable length course (i.e. unlike medicine / dentistry etc).

Hi all,

I know that there are quite a few IT guys here so I'm wondering if any of you could offer me some advice. I'm thinking of going back to university to do a degree in computer science as I'm almost 40, just had a baby and need a bigger flat. I teach yoga, build bike wheels and do freelance web design but even though it's enough to maintain my lifestyle it's not enough to move up the property ladder.

What advice? Which university to attend. Thoughts on course content and job prospects. Seems like java and C# are the ones to learn but is a lot of the work being outsourced nowadays? I don't want to have to relocate from London but will do if the course is really good and has great prospects. I have a BSc in Chemisty from about 20 years ago which I reckon should be fine as far as entry requirements go.

Ah, the end of the laid back lifestyle, but have to think about my pension.

Thanks in advance.

Hi Arup,

I did a part time MSC in Computer Science at Birkbeck. 2 -3 evenings per week for 2 years. Its a very good course, excellent teachers and a good university.

I was already working as a Java developer when I started the course, so I found it easy to get promoted etc as I had quite a bit of experience which really is the main thing in the IT industry. However, almost all the people on the course managed to land pretty decent developer roles when the course was over.

If you want to train in specific technologies I would say look into Java, but above and beyond that, the high demand technologies right now are Spring, (AOP etc) Hibernate and AJAX.

I would not bother with C#, although I would say that, being an advocate of open source software and all.

I'm not from the UK so can't comment on specific universities or training programmes. But I have been in IT for some time and have had a lot to do with hiring people in this field along the way.

If you want something immediately useful (eg C# vs Java), a vocational course might be a more efficient use of your time and money. But things move very quickly in the IT industry so your knowledge will become less relevant pretty quickly (probably less than 5 years)

Or you could spend (probably) more time and money doing a (good) university degree which will give you a solid foundation in concepts and theory that will last for the rest of your career.

Either way, you'll finish the course of study with pretty much zero years more practical experience than you have now but demonstrate self-motivation and commitment to your new career. This will get your CV recognised and get you interviews.

But to actually get (good) jobs you'll need to know more than either vocational or university training will bring. So be prepared to spend the rest of your career reading lots (internet, blogs, books etc) so you can

• learning the popular tools/languages of the day (especially if you do a university course)
  
• learning the underlying concepts and theory (if you did a vocational course)
  
  

There's still a huge shortage of good people in the IT industry so come on in - the water's warm!

I agree with an earlier poster - if you are going to for a job now, the popular tools are:

• C# or Java
  
• (N)Hibernate
  
• Spring
  
• AJAX
  
• some SQL based database server
  
• Ruby might be handy if you want to look cool with the geeks.
  
  

Some good books to read (not all at once, but probably in this order)

1) Code Complete (second edition); Steve McConnell
2) Working With Legacy Code; Michael Feathers
3) Refactoring; Martin Fowler
4) Design Patterns; "The Gang of Four" Erich Gamma, Richard Helm, Ralph Johnson, John M. Vlissides
5) Domain Driven Design; Eric Evans

Great! Having completed a BA, I am starting a conversion MSc in CompSci at UCL this September and I was burning to ask someone in the IT industry exactly these questions. And cheers Joachim for the encouragement.

I have never worked for a computer company but I have taught myself object-oriented and web programming (Python/Django, Javascript, PHP). I can also do a little Java but I am not great. On the course we will do lots of Java and I'm hoping to learn or teach myself to do object-relational mapping, i.e. Spring & Hibernate.

I am sometimes wondering if I will make a big mistake by spending even more money on university. What do you guys think? How hard is it to get a job after these sorts of courses? Does it matter that I don't have much experience?

I'm totally into computers and programming and would love to work in this industry.

I took a BSc and MSc in computer science at the UEA in Norwich, which I found to be a great school. I loved it, as it was a proper computer science course, not vocational. However, I realised that commercial programming is rather dull. Speak to some people who are working in industry currently, as it might not be what you imagine it to be.

I feel the UK industry is (or soon will be) saturated with Chinese & Indian software engineers & computer scientists.

The lab based next to mine at university is the computer science one, there are multiple classes of 150+ students that take lectures/labs there, 100% chinese.

Everytime I come to london, I meet a newly arrived indian software engineer/computer scientist paid to come over.

Really I think going to university to do comp sci, etc just as a kid straight outta a-level is a bad idea.

Everyone knows that Bachelors degrees are only a period for a student to mature into a reasonable adult form form 18-21. Thats the important bit, learning is optional.

You should find something that takes full advantage of your life experience.

Half of our development is happening in India.
Half of the 'English' side are Australians.
Software Engineering is fucking dull.
It can pay well.

Weigh it up.

If I had my time again I'd probably sap my life-force in some other fashion..

damm, some of this thread makes for depressing reading.

IT was booming before the Millenium bug.. then it bombed out and has since recovered a little.
It ain't all that.

Thanks for the input guys. I've thought about the two main learning paths ie going to university and doing a certification say with Sun. But I am interested in the subject and want to learn. So having the overview and foundation would be the thing for me even if I didn't want to do it to earn money.

I do read a lot online about the latest trends, most of which I don't really understand as I'm a total beginner. I can write html, css and a teeny bit of php, but writing a full application is beyond me. But I would like to be able to do that. And rather than focusing on a language I think it would be better to understand the underlying concepts and then hopefully the whole technology thing will make a lot more sense.

I suppose I could do something else but having maintained an interest in web design over the last 3 years and being totally self-taught I reckon that I'm not going to fall out with it too soon. There isn't much else that I'm interested in at the moment which could be career worthy.

Better get onto UCAS then. I can't believe that it was over 20 years ago that I first went to uni. I had a landlady at the time who was about 40 ish and had just started a psychology degree. She looked old at the time, too old to go back to uni, but here I am about to do the same thing. Mid life crisis? Maybe.

Well, bravo to you. Hope you enjoy it.

Out of interest how much will it cost you to do this course? Can't be cheap.

I work in IT but don't have a programming background. I do hire a lot of programmers. The challenge is not who taught you or what qualification you have (although most employers will require a degree, most will not require it to be in a relevant discipline). When I want to know how competent a programmer is, I don't look at his degree, I give him a test.

So if you have a degree, all you need is:

1. ability. you can learn this in many other ways than via a full-blown 3 year full-time course. You can prove this more easily than with a degree certificate.
   
2. Sector experience. Most programmers will need to specialise in a sector area. Finance, Insurance, web, etc. etc.
   
3. Confidence. In your ability, which'll affect your ability to communicate your ability and experience.
   
   

my 2p: Find an employer willing to take a punt on you. Do some very specific, targeted courses. Try distance learning, local college or books. Avoid commercial courses as too expensive. Try to get them to pay for some/all of them. You may need to start the ball rolling before you find an employer who'll sponsor you. Learn about the other factors in IT, use your knowledge to get your foor in the door to get more experience. Don't over state yourself on your CV; differentiate between what you know and what you want to do.

Hot areas right now (and the next 5-10 years):
Java
Agile / extreme programming
legislative change
Business Analysis
SOA

Stay away from activities that can be commoditised and require no knowledge of a market or industry sector - e.g. testing, basic development.

...and good luck, whatever you do! :-)

I would recommend a pHD in Yoghurt Weaving.

I'd second a lot of what Fred says. Doing an entire degree is probably overkill and won't necessarily guarantee you a decent job, instead I'd look to do some shorter courses and try and get some pratical experience. I believe Kingston University still do some very good one week courses on various programming languages.

For practical experience then consider contributing code to an existing open source project - it means you can gain experience in your own time that would look very good on a CV.

Personally I think the ability to communicate is more important in the IT world now so if you're able to code and can talk fluently on your domain then you've a good chance of progressing.

I believe Kingston University still do some very good one week courses on various programming languages.

Can't find it on their website

Wrong department;

http://cism.kingston.ac.uk/courses/short/index.htm

Half of our development is happening in India.
Half of the 'English' side are Australians.
Software Engineering is fucking dull.
It can pay well.

Weigh it up.

If I had my time again I'd probably sap my life-force in some other fashion..

fashion industry wouldn't want u!

Dale you are like a broken fucking record..
Can't you think of anything more creative?
For someone who doesn't drink your mind is surprisingly devoid of useful or creative content.

Oh, you're still fucking slower than me you fucking weakling.

sorry i'm not gok kwan.

you're the one avoiding the crits or the track, opting for the old man sportives.

Oh, I'm sorry in my rapidly declining years I have opted to target long distances instead of 60 minutes of sitting in. When you can ride more than 100k in one go let me know..

lol you two

i like it hard and fast hippy. none of this roll along, look at my powertap, pushing 120 watts, stroke my beard grandpa rides. remind me to buy you some shimano spd sandals for you so you are comfortable in your sportive rides, especially for when u stop for tea and scones.