Cheap miche hub - but the lockring won't tighten?

hey. just got a new cheap rear wheel built off Kiwi Paul. He used a single sided fixed (ugly) low flange miche hub. So far so good. I came to put the sprocket on with a chainwhip - fine. But then i tightened the lockring that came with the hub (which is clockwise on Miche hubs), and i got it pretty tight. Kept going and i think i might have slightly stripped the thread of the lockring or hub?

Basically a sliver of aluminium came off as i loosened it and now i can't get the fucker on tight.

What's the best thing to do? i was careful threading it on, is it just a case of getting a better, steel lockring?

I am gonna keep an eye on the sprocket and maybe rotafix it as i have had them slip before as its scary as hell!

Also once the sprocket is on, there isn't much thread left on the hub to lock down on. My amborsio/formula one had a much deeper threading section.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

cheers,
Kam

what cog do you have on there?
There could be a chance that the lockring is bottoming out on the thread and not actually binding up against the sprocket..

hey matt,

I have a 19 tooth condor cnc jobby. there's a lip on the cog so that it is spaced away from the hub (i.e. the cog is not flat - it has an extended lip part).

Btw how's the open workshop? Could i come over one time? Really wanna learn some bikey maintenance skills.

thanks,
Kam

But then i tightened the lockring that came with the hub (which is clockwise on Miche hubs), and i got it pretty tight.

Sounds like a road/suicide hub with a bottom bracket lockring. Not a proper track hub with a counter-clockwise tightening lockring.

hey Mike,

Could be wrong but i think all Miche hubs are like this? Even the primatos which are definately track.

No.
An old road hub which takes a screw-on freewheel (usually 5-7 speed) will only have one directional threading, clockwise - 'righty-tighty'.

Track hubs (including the several Miche primato pista which are lying around my household) will have two sets of stepped threading. The first set closest to the center of the hub will be larger diameter and clockwise. The second set of threads closest to the axle ends will be slightly smaller diameter and thread on anti-clockwise.

I'm with Mike on this - all my Primatos have lockrings that you turn anti-clockwise to tighten: does sound like a normal sf hub to me. Saying that I use a pair of those too, with a bit of locktite on the sprocket threads; it hasn't unwound itself so far!

hmm, thanks Mike - my bad.

That's kinda shit if this hub is a roadie type. Seems a bit odd of Paul to put it on knowing that i ride fixed. I don't wanna loctite it as i change cogs sometimes.

I will investigate and get a pic on here, might help clarify.

cheers.

Yea, it's proper dodgy of somebody selling a 'suicide' hub as a real fixed hub. I've met Paul a few times, seems like a decent guy. I don't like hearing stories like this. But it seems like every one of the 'used fixed-gear salesmen' in London has at least one...

If it's any relief, I ride a fixed cog on the freewheel side of my formula hub without a lockring or loctite. It's on my commute bike so I have decent sized gearing and a brake which I use, no skidding. It's yet to unscrew just by resisting to control speed...

hi again,

Finally got a chance to have proper look at this again and get a few pix (will post shortly). Anyway it's official - this is a roadie hub. I went and saw the good people at Cavendish (think i talked to Hassan - forgot to ask his name) and yeah the hub is dodgy. Basically his advice was go see Paul immediately as you're riding a death trap. + don't back break! I am really disappointed because i was just looking for a fair, cheap wheel to keep me going for a bit and this has worked out rubbish. Gonna speak with Paul and see what can be done, but doubtful about the outcome. If it all goes tits up, does anyone have a basic rear track hub? And anyone wanna help me re-build it (dale, arup?). The bitch is i need it for my commute from Battersea to Clerkenwell daily and can't go without even for a few days.

I'll kee pyou posted on outcome, this is a rubbish result so far :-(

;156581']Sounds like a road/suicide hub with a bottom bracket lockring

I'm sorry to hijack a thread, and sorry if this is a dumb-asse question, but how do you know if a hub is/and whats the definition, of a suicide hub?

When I put the lockring on my "ebay buy" it only tightens up about 3qtrs of a turn.
Is this safe?

'Suicide hub' is a term referring to a fixed cog screwed onto a hub meant to take a freewheel, being a single bmx style freewheel or a 5, 6, 7,sometimes 8 speed freewheel block. Because there are no stepped, reverse threaded threads for a track lockring you can use an old style bottom bracket lockring to help secure the cog from unthreading. This works on the same principle as a threaded headset and the adjustable cup of an old style BB staying together. Called suicide because of the likely-hood of it coming undone at the worst possible moment.

Dead giveaways for a built up suicide hub are quick releases, narrow spacing between the flanges (edit - if single sided), severely offcentered spacing of hub/rim/dropouts-ends, large diameter lockring or no lockring.

Any locking ring/nut should hold at least 3 threads. This is the minimum amount that is deemed 'secure' by engineering standards. (so I've been told...) A locking ring screwing on only 3/4 of a turn is not engaging enough thread to have a strong hold and will probably bust what thread it is holding off the hub being road (suicide) or track. Again, at the worst possible moment.

Track Hub (both sides)

Free wheel/ Road hub

Notice how on the track hub, there is a step? this is lacking on the road hub. this step is reverse (left hand) threaded, this is so the cog cannot slip off when putting back pressure on the pedals.

Thanks, mine is definately a road one then.
I will remove the lockring/cog and stick a freewheel on until i can afford a new wheel.
Cheers.

Thanks, mine is definately a road one then.
I will remove the lockring/cog and stick a freewheel on until i can afford a new wheel.
Cheers.

So if you're going to ride with a freewheel then you use brakes right? A 'suicide' hub is perfectly OK with brakes. I commute 30mi a day with a front brake and without a lockring...

My biggest concern here is that Paul sold a fixed wheel without saying that it was a converted road hub. If someone not knowing went careening around town on it without using hand brakes it could end disasterously. Yea, you could say it was the muppets fault for not knowing what to look for and that he wasn't made to buy it. I would call it bad customer service and irresponsibility on Paul's part. Especially within such a niche, 'community' market!

Hey Mike,

thanks for your comments. As always i reckon the truth is somewhere in the middle. Paul reckons he did tell me it wasn't a track hub (although i actually remember it being like this: are you fitting a high flange formula track hub? No...I only get them in pairs, i am fitting a small flange Miche...no mention that it wasn't track as far I can remember). I don't reckon i am a muppet seeing as i realised there was a problem and sought to figure out exactly what it was! You learn from this stuff after all... and for Paul's part, he's agreed to re-builkd the wheel for free and i will supply the hub, + he was pretty quick to resolve the problem.

Only thing that's bugged me is he reckons he fits loads of these hubs and any issues are down to incorrect fitting. Thats kind of bollocks as i fitted it carefully with a dura-ace chainwhip (something i have done lots of times over the last year) and in any case there isn't enough feckin thread to fit the lockring on anyways!

anyway who knows, just keen to get the wheel sorted so i can get on with riding.

how many holes do you need in your hub? I have a 32h
miche high flange track hub I'm about to ebay.

hey kam mike was not calling you a muppet

hey Bill, wish i could take you up on the offer! It's a 36er unfortunately, though what do you want for it? Primato? PM me.

Chris - Mike seems like a sound bloke so no offense taken in any case!

that sounds really bad. anyone with sound mechanical knowledge of bikes should be able to easily tell a proper track hub from a suicide hub (mike's list of 'dead giveaways'), and kiwi paul should have known better!

i've had this kind of experience before. bought my track bike off the 2 fat guys at a jumble. i told them i was going to ride it on the road. too many dodgy things about that bike for me to realise the 3 months after.

edit: another giveaway is that track hubs normally have the bearing 'bulge' on the inside of the flanges, not the outside. chris's pictures of miche hubs illustrates this rather well.

yeah lesson truly learned!