Bikes in church

Hmmm, the font of all knowledge - [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus[/ame] isn't exactly conclusive on the subject.

But he (being god and being omniscient) knew he was going to be crucified before the thought ever entered the Roman's heads. And (no small addition here) he knew he would rise from the dead anyhow a few days later and all would be fine.

And they call this a sacrifice, it's a little like me getting all magnanimous and offering to buy everyone in the pub a drink - knowing that it's a free bar that night.

Then going on about it for 2 thousand years.

i often offer to make tea at 4:30 when i know everyone else is about to go home.

or to paraphrase that great geligious scholar eddie izzard: "i think that jesus did exist and that he had some groovy ideas in the peace and love/ghandi type area."

and that was probably about it.

What counts as a contemporaneous historical record?

A contemporaneous historical record ! :)

I thought there was a number of sources that suggest that there was indeed a bloke called Jesus in roughly the right place at the right time who caused a bit of a fuss and was crucified for his troubles.

No, there are no contemporaneous records to support the idea that Jesus existed outside of the bible, the first documentation is from around 40-50 years after he magicked himself out of the grave.

And many of the these 2nd hand reports (by less than impartial supporters) have insurmountable authenticity problems associated with them, like Josephus mentioning Jesus in Testimonium Flavianum - which many theologians now know was a forgery by Bishop Eusebius many centuries later.

The best proof for a 'Jesus' character outside the gospels, occurs in the Talmud, where the name 'Yeshu' is associated with a 'sorceror' who was hung during passover.

And this is all in one of the most recorded periods in antiquity.

Hmmm, the font of all knowledge - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus isn't exactly conclusive on the subject.

I remember reading that wiki page a while back, I actually laughed at some of the methodology use to establish records, the clutching of straws and recourse to obfuscation. :)

Things to do with with the Vienna Circle / verification / falsification etc spring to mind as offering entertaining problems for claims made about JC. They are deeply flawed really but good discussion points.

i often offer to make tea at 4:30 when i know everyone else is about to go home.

Wise move !

or to paraphrase that great geligious scholar eddie izzard: "i think that jesus did exist and that he had some groovy ideas in the peace and love/ghandi type area."

and that was probably about it.

This, in my opinion is a recent (post Victorian) attempt to sanitize the ridiculous superstitious and violent nonsense in the bible. the attempt to re-brand Jesus as kind, meek, gentle and just plain groovy.

And yet the very scripture that is the only 'evidence' (cough-cough) for this character has him condone what we would consider vile and barbarous actions. Jesus condones things like rape, murder and slavery - he even goes as far as to instruct on how badly you should beat your slaves (basically don't kill them, but if you do beat them so hard they die make sure it is not so hard that they die within the first two days after the beating).

And Ghandi was a fucking racist too! :) so I also don't understand him being held up as a icon of love and peace (indeed he is widely quoted as saying that 'peace' was a tactic, if violence would have worked then that is the route he would have taken), he certainly did an enormous amount of good for the Indian people and led them out of British colonial rule, but the bloke was still a bigot. Perhaps just the norm for the time (?)

Separation from the blacks anyone ? He had a lead on the South Africans !

This is a anomaly of liberalism - it promotes absolute cunts to be heroes, and traduces heroes into scoundrels. There is often little appetite for the truth, people are more comfortable with 'cartoon' characters like 'lovely old Ghandi' and 'gentle Jesus', 'Princess Diana the princess of our hearts' and 'kindly old Mother Theresa'

Oh yeah, and Mother Theresa, she was an absolute cunt ! Probably one of the worst, if I could put one person on trial it would be that fucking witch.

Now, let there be killing.

Tynan you missed the Hindu dietes...

But FFS don't start on the Muslims or they will fatwa my sweaty saddle i named Muhammad

Jesus is around, believe me. Last night i rode home from the pub, really pushing it, when I lost sight of the road and almost planted my face in a huge dogshite. I felt the spirit leave my body, and I could watch myself in some sort of tunnel vision talking hebrew to the pile of shit. Then i fell asleep.

That's when Jesus came to me and told me that he forgave me all my sins, and all my children's sins.

When I woke up I cold see His face in blood on my right elbow!

I'm a sinner, and I love it. I'll be back, Jesus, after the pub.

Tynan you missed the Hindu dietes...

But FFS don't start on the Muslims or they will fatwa my sweaty saddle i named Muhammad

:)

It's a classic, but always worth a post:

I'll be back, Jesus, after the pub.

T-shirt !

I like "Jesus is coming" on the front, and "look busy" on the back.

Wise move !

This, in my opinion is a recent (post Victorian) attempt to sanitize the ridiculous superstitious and violent nonsense in the bible. the attempt to re-brand Jesus as kind, meek, gentle and just plain groovy.

And yet the very scripture that is the only 'evidence' (cough-cough) for this character has him condone what we would consider vile and barbarous actions. Jesus condones things like rape, murder and slavery - he even goes as far as to instruct on how badly you should beat your slaves (basically don't kill them, but if you do beat them so hard they die make sure it is not so hard that they die within the first two days after the beating).

And Ghandi was a fucking racist too! :) so I also don't understand him being held up as a icon of love and peace (indeed he is widely quoted as saying that 'peace' was a tactic, if violence would have worked then that is the route he would have taken), he certainly did an enormous amount of good for the Indian people and led them out of British colonial rule, but the bloke was still a bigot. Perhaps just the norm for the time (?)

Separation from the blacks anyone ? He had a lead on the South Africans !

This is a anomaly of liberalism - it promotes absolute cunts to be heroes, and traduces heroes into scoundrels. There is often little appetite for the truth, people are more comfortable with 'cartoon' characters like 'lovely old Ghandi' and 'gentle Jesus', 'Princess Diana the princess of our hearts' and 'kindly old Mother Theresa'

Oh yeah, and Mother Theresa, she was an absolute cunt ! Probably one of the worst, if I could put one person on trial it would be that fucking witch.

Now, let there be killing.

+1.5

Nice one Al, at least they're both dead. And with them 90% of the bullshit bollox.

Tynan you missed the Hindu dietes...

But FFS don't start on the Muslims or they will fatwa my sweaty saddle i named Muhammad

I just renamed my Fizik 'Fatwa', seems more indicative of the size of my arse.

Wise move !

This, in my opinion is a recent (post Victorian) attempt to sanitize the ridiculous superstitious and violent nonsense in the bible. the attempt to re-brand Jesus as kind, meek, gentle and just plain groovy.

And yet the very scripture that is the only 'evidence' (cough-cough) for this character has him condone what we would consider vile and barbarous actions. Jesus condones things like rape, murder and slavery - he even goes as far as to instruct on how badly you should beat your slaves (basically don't kill them, but if you do beat them so hard they die make sure it is not so hard that they die within the first two days after the beating).

And Ghandi was a fucking racist too! :) so I also don't understand him being held up as a icon of love and peace (indeed he is widely quoted as saying that 'peace' was a tactic, if violence would have worked then that is the route he would have taken), he certainly did an enormous amount of good for the Indian people and led them out of British colonial rule, but the bloke was still a bigot. Perhaps just the norm for the time (?)

Separation from the blacks anyone ? He had a lead on the South Africans !

This is a anomaly of liberalism - it promotes absolute cunts to be heroes, and traduces heroes into scoundrels. There is often little appetite for the truth, people are more comfortable with 'cartoon' characters like 'lovely old Ghandi' and 'gentle Jesus', 'Princess Diana the princess of our hearts' and 'kindly old Mother Theresa'

Oh yeah, and Mother Theresa, she was an absolute cunt ! Probably one of the worst, if I could put one person on trial it would be that fucking witch.

Now, let there be killing.

blimey, i was just quoting a lovably shambolic cross-dresing improvisational standup comic from the 90s (whilst leaving work with a nice tea high) .

explain about mother t though please? the rest of your rant i know and love but i'm entireky ignorant on the thoughts of ol' wrinkly wimpole (although i 'm aware she was an insanely devout chatholic headcase and therefore probably terrifyingly barkingly mad).

Me personally, I love jesus. Praise the lord!

are you praising the lord right now, alex?

blimey, i was just quoting a lovably shambolic cross-dresing improvisational standup comic from the 90s (whilst leaving work with a nice tea high) .

explain about mother t though please? the rest of your rant i know and love but i'm entireky ignorant on the thoughts of ol' wrinkly wimpole (although i 'm aware she was an insanely devout chatholic headcase and therefore probably terrifyingly barkingly mad).

please don't encourage him.

are you praising the lord right now, alex?

You wouldn't believe how much love I am giving him at the moment. Seriously

please don't encourage him.

+1. It'll start out something like this:

but will quickly end up like this:

i feel like bashing a bishop now.

btw that's some of the crappest rioting ever captured on camera. at least half the guys in that pic are doing the "help! mummy!" cover-your-valuables-with-a-raised-leg-disguised-as-a-half-arsed-kung-fu-kick thing.

Wise move !

This, in my opinion is a recent (post Victorian) attempt to sanitize the ridiculous superstitious and violent nonsense in the bible. the attempt to re-brand Jesus as kind, meek, gentle and just plain groovy.

And yet the very scripture that is the only 'evidence' (cough-cough) for this character has him condone what we would consider vile and barbarous actions. Jesus condones things like rape, murder and slavery - he even goes as far as to instruct on how badly you should beat your slaves (basically don't kill them, but if you do beat them so hard they die make sure it is not so hard that they die within the first two days after the beating).

And Ghandi was a fucking racist too! :) so I also don't understand him being held up as a icon of love and peace (indeed he is widely quoted as saying that 'peace' was a tactic, if violence would have worked then that is the route he would have taken), he certainly did an enormous amount of good for the Indian people and led them out of British colonial rule, but the bloke was still a bigot. Perhaps just the norm for the time (?)

Separation from the blacks anyone ? He had a lead on the South Africans !

This is a anomaly of liberalism - it promotes absolute cunts to be heroes, and traduces heroes into scoundrels. There is often little appetite for the truth, people are more comfortable with 'cartoon' characters like 'lovely old Ghandi' and 'gentle Jesus', 'Princess Diana the princess of our hearts' and 'kindly old Mother Theresa'

Oh yeah, and Mother Theresa, she was an absolute cunt ! Probably one of the worst, if I could put one person on trial it would be that fucking witch.

Now, let there be killing.

I bet bedtime stories in your house are going to be fun.

C'mo, c'mon, hasn't anyone got support for the long suffering Jesus?

Maybe if Jesus had a lo-pro in Galilee, it would all have turned out differently.