Why does being on a bike in London cause so much conflict? (this time, a jaywalker)

hit a jaywalker tonight on charing cross road on my way home. not hard, but fast enough to be a bit of a worry. i barely managed to stay on my bike, and she was almost knocked over.

there is no doubt that she knew that she was in the wrong, because she was running when I hit her (there were two of them).

I jumped off immediately and looked round to see if she was alright. she was so i yelled some abuse. not gentlemanly and no attempt to make an excuse but i am sure many on this board will understand what it feels like. a lot of people were watching, probably thinking "evil cyclist", when SHE was causing the danger. I was not cycling fast, and am always on high alert for jaywalkers on that street. It's like being raped, being painted as the bad guy in this situation...

I say all this because a taxi driver who did not see the incident, but did see me hurling (very limited) abuse and her nursing her arm, jumped in and started playing Batman. After I started cycling, he shouted "oi I saw that, stop" and trying to run me into the kerb. I was pretty freaked out, but not enough to stop me giving him the finger. I cruised quite slowly through two red lights by Leicester Square tube, but glanced one woman's backpack. I didn't stop because I wanted to get the fuck out of there.

I've been getting a lot of shit on my bike from other members of society lately - how do you avoid this type of stuff happening? nb before the accident I was not riding fast, at or below traffic speed up the hill.

To be fair, if a taxi driver see's you throwing abuse, no matter how limited, he's gonna assume the worst.

London hates bikes.

Glad nothing serious happened.

It is annoying.

But just try and chill.

I try and say. "Please look before you cross the road" in a annoyed but non yelling voice.

I don't always do this, but when I do the stress passes quicker, and is any escalation occurs observers are always on the calmer persons side.

Lastly we are all pedestrians and while we (as a go up i.e cyclists) may be better behaved than most (when we ourselves are pedestrian due to a higher level of empathy towards other road users) I am sure we all still sometimes walk out in a silly manor. I know I have done, and defiantly when I have had some drinks.

I must try and do this more also.

don't want to be a bastard, but why abuse her in the first place? i know she could have knocked you off, but i think she probably learnt her lesson by being poleaxed. just be thankful you came off without any injuries or damage, find out she's ok, and keep going... pedestrians and drivers do stupid things all the time (and so do cyclists - how many stories have people told on this message board of doing silly things on bikes), that doesn't mean they're complete fucktards or deserving of a torrent of abuse. doing that just makes her (and observers) feel like you were in the wrong.

the whole "they hate us" thing cuts two ways, and you don't improve others' attitudes by being abusive to them...

It's like being raped,

I can well imagine... I do hope I never end up picking up the soap on oxford st.

Perhaps it's karma for cutting across Trafalga Sq earlier in the week?

it's like being raped

this is old compton st!

yeh i will chillax a bit more. or weld a giant spear to the front of my bike, like war ships in olden times

don't want to be a bastard, but why abuse her in the first place? i know she could have knocked you off, but i think she probably learnt her lesson by being poleaxed. just be thankful you came off without any injuries or damage, find out she's ok, and keep going...

I think his reaction is entirely natural, visceral, instinctual even, we can no easier be injured by a thoughtless pedestrian and then be thankful in any way whatsoever than we can cut off a finger and remain free of pain.

What you are watching when you see a cyclist dragging his bike from under a cab and calling the driver every name under the Sun - is not a thought through stream of invective towards the cab driver, it is a reaction, it is your autonomous nervous system telling you to shout as loud as you can, it is the flight or fight response flooding your muscles with blood and your blood with adrenalin and then instructing you to punch any fucker that comes near you, you cannot simply switch this off, dust yourself down and 'keep going'. Some may control this instinct better than others, but instinct it is.

When someone risks their own and my safety through thoughtlessness I give them both barrels, fuck it, they don't even have to make contact with me, a close call is enough to get called a cunt.

'why abuse her in the first place' - Again pretty basic stuff, abuse, physical or otherwise is a warning not to repeat. The abuse serves a purpose, the person who walks into the road without looking, causes a cyclist to come off and receives a 3 minute stream of obscenities as you dust yourself down and stem your bleeding is less likely to be so carefree about walking out into the road in the future.

It is an investment.

What you do not want to do is 'find out she's ok, and keep going' - you want to make the experience of blindly wondering into the road as unpleasant as possible for her so this person is reminded never to do that again.

the whole "they hate us" thing cuts two ways, and you don't improve others' attitudes by being abusive to them...

I disagree, for me it is irresponsible to attempt to smooth over or sanitize any situation where both parties could be killed or injured, to act as if it is all no big deal, on the contrary I think the situation should be amplified, exaggerated, the point should be driven home very clearly.

Stupidity on the roads should be met with abuse and ridicule.

I am off to do some killing.

I took out a lady a few weeks back - she didn't look when crossing the road, I shouted whooaaah, and then all of me and my bike smacked her square on, which resulted in us both sprawling on the road. She was fairly fucked, and I made sure she was all right, which is a lot more than any one else around did. I could've hurled a stream of cusses at her (which I am prone to do), but felt it wasn't really needed - I just wanted to get out of there really.

I don't think giving her some shit would have acted as a future deterant, as I'm fairly sure having a load of bike and fakenger piling into her at 15ish mph served that purpose - I do give these fucking Mr Magoo types grief generally cos I don't want to end up under a bus due to their idiocy, but this one in particular will now look before crossing the road

OK tonight i spoke to a couple of people in my family who live in London about this (they are non-cyclists). They had both been nearly hit by "courier types". they thought that in this type of situation, it is always the fault of the cyclist. According to them, the pedestrian can walk in the street as they please, and if they get hit, it's not their fault. The reason being that cyclists shouldn't go so fast that they can't stop if a pedestrian jumps in the road with no warning. I am not making this up, and I am not exaggerating. How pig-headed is that? I got the impression that they both thought that because they were at risk of serious injury, the cause of that risk (THEM) had no bearing whatsoever.

Uh Bikesnob put it best:

"The surest way to disaster is mindless adherence to rules, routine, and procedure, because they do not account for the unexpected—or, as I prefer to call it, the stupidity factor. Take pedestrians, for example. When you have the green, pedestrians will not think twice about crossing against the light, right in front of you. They will also usually look near you but not at you, as though they’re following Jerry Seinfeld’s procedure for admiring a woman’s breasts without being caught. Conversely, when they do have the light and you have a red, they’ll generally stop dead and look at you as though you’re about to run them down. When you’re dealing with this sort of stupidity, all bets are off. If you don’t believe me, go outside right now and stand at a busy corner. Wait until a large vehicle is approaching, and then run across the street. I guarantee at least five people will follow you to almost certain death. These bovine are simply too stupid to live, and if you blindly follow traffic rules they will take you right down with them."

I don't think giving her some shit would have acted as a future deterant, as I'm fairly sure having a load of bike and fakenger piling into her at 15ish mph served that purpose

You are right that in that some situations - perhaps her teeth are spread around Oxford Circus - the incident is enough of a warning, but be surprised (be very surprised) at how many people will get up off the floor and (especially in light of a helpful and empathetic cyclist) leave thinking it was all your fault.

It is these people that need to be reminded that their actions are not acceptable - for everyone's sake.

Must learn to log in/out, looks like Wheels is supporting Tynan's versions of road Eugenics ! ;P

Thanks.

No problem.

Make up your mind!!

If it helps, I prefer Wheels' logo.

Make up your mind!!

If it helps, I prefer Wheels' logo.

Tynan made it for me.

lol

I try and say. "Please look before you cross the road" in a annoyed but non yelling voice.

I don't always do this, but when I do the stress passes quicker, and is any escalation occurs observers are always on the calmer persons side.

Yeah, I agree. Whilst I think what Tynan is saying about it being natural to react angrily is right, I think with pedestrians we have to calm down very quick otherwise you get one of London's angry nutters joining in, i.e. that taxi driver, and then the shit will really start to pile up.

OK tonight i spoke to a couple of people in my family who live in London about this (they are non-cyclists). They had both been nearly hit by "courier types". they thought that in this type of situation, it is always the fault of the cyclist. According to them, the pedestrian can walk in the street as they please, and if they get hit, it's not their fault. The reason being that cyclists shouldn't go so fast that they can't stop if a pedestrian jumps in the road with no warning. I am not making this up, and I am not exaggerating. How pig-headed is that? I got the impression that they both thought that because they were at risk of serious injury, the cause of that risk (THEM) had no bearing whatsoever.

Very. People don't seem to understand that pedestrians do not have right of way on the road.

Seems to me like London needs to do a bit of revision/learning...

there is no doubt that she knew that she was in the wrong, because she was running when I hit her (there were two of them).

It's like being raped, being painted as the bad guy in this situation...

I say all this because a taxi driver who did not see the incident, but did see me hurling (very limited) abuse and her nursing her arm, jumped in and started playing Batman.

this idea of 'being in the wrong' is a bit misguided. this was an accident. you need to be much calmer and more philosophical. berating a woman, or anyone who just ran into the road and then into you at high speed is nasty and serves no purpose, at all. she didn't deliberately pick you, or run out in front of a bicycle as some kind of crazy new game, this is london, you choose to cycle through it, and through the busiest tourist bits of one of the busiest tourist cities in the world. shouting the odds reflects badly on you. it is no wonder the taxi driver (assholes that they are, him pushing you into the kerb is bad) felt the need to intervene.

i've been riding with a friend before and he totally bawled out a pedestrian who strayed into the road, and it was totally embarrassing and unnecessary, i mean, what exactly is it going to do apart from entrench opinions people have of cyclists being total dicks riding round like sandanistas, somehow outside of society, with no brain, just a bit of a brain that makes them think they're so fucking special because they ride a bicycle. just help her up, make sure she's ok and ride off. no-one wants to hear you rant.

and i very much doubt that this situation was anything like being raped.

This is all a bit C+ commuting forum isn't it?

not really.

although the new layout encourages this. :P

i guess we need a 'commuting' section to really get going.

helmets! GRRRR Red Lights! GRRRR! Pedestrians! Grrrr

What pj said two up.

this idea of 'being in the wrong' is a bit misguided. this was an accident. you need to be much calmer and more philosophical. berating a woman, or anyone who just ran into the road and then into you at high speed is nasty and serves no purpose, at all. she didn't deliberately pick you, or run out in front of a bicycle as some kind of crazy new game, this is london, you choose to cycle through it, and through the busiest tourist bits of one of the busiest tourist cities in the world. shouting the odds reflects badly on you. it is no wonder the taxi driver (assholes that they are, him pushing you into the kerb is bad) felt the need to intervene.

i've been riding with a friend before and he totally bawled out a pedestrian who strayed into the road, and it was totally embarrassing and unnecessary, i mean, what exactly is it going to do apart from entrench opinions people have of cyclists being total dicks riding round like sandanistas, somehow outside of society, with no brain, just a bit of a brain that makes them think they're so fucking special because they ride a bicycle. just help her up, make sure she's ok and ride off. no-one wants to hear you rant.

and i very much doubt that this situation was anything like being raped.

Sanity prevails.

+billions.