What the Hell I Did. [Update]

How about some 'Wanted, for crimes against cranks' posters

see also; http://www.londonfgss.com/discussion/4848/-very-bent-chain-ring-chainring-/#Item_12

Worst case scenario I'd have thought you had a pretty good case to take to the small claims court, you've handed a bike over to them so that they could remove a set of cranks with a crank puller, a job that should've taken ten minutes max and instead they've taken a whole lot longer angle grinding them off, in the process destroying the cranks and as a result overcharged you for the labour. So you have a demonstrable loss, the excess cost of the labour and the material value of the cranks, that you have sustained as a direct result of their professional negligence/incompetence.
Obviously pursuing a small claims action is both hassle and will cost you money, the costs are recoverble, unfortunately you just have to live with the hassle. An alternative way forward is to complain to trading standards who may well pursue the case on your behalf.
There's no need to feel bad about feeling awkward complaining, you can almost bet that BLB and the like rely on this. Do you go to Polo on Sundays, if so maybe you could hold off going back till Sunday and have a couple of people go in with you for moral support. A key part of BLB's marketing story seems to be that they're "hip", "street credible" and "keeping it real", having a mini-delegation from bike polo in the store complaining that they done a hatchet job on one of our bikes is going to make them look shite, you'd have thought even BLB would recognise what a (mini) PR disaster this could be and so might be more inclined to be reasonable. Not guaranteeing success, but it's worth a thought.

i would avoid going in on their busy time as they are more likely to give you free stuff when no one is watching, if that fails go back at a busy time and raise a fuss

^I'm available for 'moral support' on Sunday

@Chris; Surely it's about time people were watching

im not saying keep it a secret, im saying get your money back.

im well pissed off for asm. and im all for putting out what a bad job they do all over the place, but i think getting asm his money back, and the cash for the cranks is important

Chris, I agree with you that the most important thing is that asm gets a new set of cranks out of BLB.
But we're not talking here about 'free stuff'. We're talking about the responsibility of the shop to ANY of their customers.

i agree, its fucked, lets do somethign about it, but lets be sure asm get his cranks.

^ Yes

hm i was off on tuesday so have no clue about what happened.......anyway ill ask tommorow what the story is.....im sorry about the cranks........anyway i state form the start that im not 100 percent satisfied how the shop is run and what is going on but then im not a manager/owner. so i have basicaly 2 options. Option A is leaving which i dont really wanna do and option B is trying to somehow change the way it operates.....

and as for overpriced stuff..........well someone phoned in today asking for nitto bullhorns ....after i told him the price he said oh but hubjub has it cheaper...well yes it does becuz A)hubjub does not pay london rent B) hubjub has no employees to pay wage to ie. me:-) .....and I said before in other post....lets take chris king ....62 retail in USA, fine fair enough BUT.......67 pound wholesale in UK, add a vat to this and you have nice sum of 80 quid. plus the rent and the wage and some profit to buy peanuts for..........what would you make of that????

and yeah as for bad customer service............someone just walked in the shop saying he wants a bottom bracket for sugino crankset....i asked which one???? he goes sugino.....i said i cant sell you a bottom bracket unless i know what sugino.....he goes sugino...i go im not gonna sell it to you unless you tell me which sugino...and he walks awat pissed off.......someone through the conversation i told they vary in size and taper....no answer.......what should i have done?????? draw i diagram of sugino family tree?????

bad fukken client service says me

polybikeuser Worst case scenario I'd have thought you had a pretty good case to take to the small claims court, you've handed a bike over to them so that they could remove a set of cranks with a crank puller, a job that should've taken ten minutes max and instead they've taken a whole lot longer angle grinding them off, in the process destroying the cranks and as a result overcharged you for the labour. So you have a demonstrable loss, the excess cost of the labour and the material value of the cranks, that you have sustained as a direct result of their professional negligence/incompetence.
Obviously pursuing a small claims action is both hassle and will cost you money, the costs are recoverble, unfortunately you just have to live with the hassle. An alternative way forward is to complain to trading standards who may well pursue the case on your behalf.

Poly - can I call you Poly, seems a bit informal? :) -

I agree with the sentiment of what you say here, but this is so cut and dried that there really is no need for recourse to the small claims court - ASM asked for a service (to remove his cranks) BLB agreed - but instead they destroyed his cranks - without wishing to sound glib = case closed.

BLB must (legally) meet its obligation here, to replace the destroyed item - the cost of the labour is a grey area I would rather not comment on.

As you say his loss is demonstrable. No contest here.

One other thing, (if it comes to it) pursuing a small claims action is super duper easy these days, simply log on to https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco/index.jsp enter your claim + pay the online fee by debit/credit card (I forget how much but I think around a ton) which will be added onto your claim amount and that's it job done.

But I do really think that there is no need as this could be resolved much quicker by speaking to BLB (?).

polybikeuser There's no need to feel bad about feeling awkward complaining, you can almost bet that BLB and the like rely on this.

+1

broken_77 someone just walked in the shop saying he wants a bottom bracket for sugino crankset....i asked which one???? he goes sugino.....i said i cant sell you a bottom bracket unless i know what sugino.....he goes sugino...i go im not gonna sell it to you unless you tell me which sugino...and he walks awat pissed off.......someone through the conversation i told they vary in size and taper....no answer.......what should i have done?????? **draw i diagram **of sugino family tree?????

Mate, I don't know you, so don't want to pick a fight and neither have I ever worked in a bike shop, so maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about, but I spend my life explaining things like benefits and wellfare rights to people who don't understand that kind of stuff......so yes if necessary calmly and quietly draw the bloke a diagram.

I completely agree with your earlier point that retails shops like BLB can't compete on price with online stores because of the cost of premises/staff and that in a shop what punters are paying the extra for is the service, but they're also paying for your expert knowledge, this being the case it does seem a bit harsh to complain that customers don't share that same expert knowledge.

Unless the bloke was a complete argumentative twat it does, like I say, seem a bit harsh to complain that he needed you (the expert)to explain to him (the non-expert) that you need a different size bottom bracket depending on frame threading and which particular chainset you're running. In my experience this is the kind of thing that Brixton Cycles and the like deal with calmly and fairly effortlessly on a daily basis.

wheels [quote]polybikeuser Worst case scenario I'd have thought you had a pretty good case to take to the small claims court, you've handed a bike over to them so that they could remove a set of cranks with a crank puller, a job that should've taken ten minutes max and instead they've taken a whole lot longer angle grinding them off, in the process destroying the cranks and as a result overcharged you for the labour. So you have a demonstrable loss, the excess cost of the labour and the material value of the cranks, that you have sustained as a direct result of their professional negligence/incompetence.
Obviously pursuing a small claims action is both hassle and will cost you money, the costs are recoverble, unfortunately you just have to live with the hassle. An alternative way forward is to complain to trading standards who may well pursue the case on your behalf.

Poly - can I call you Poly, seems a bit informal? :) -

I agree with the sentiment of what you say here, but this is so cut and dried that there really is no need for recourse to the small claims court - ASM asked for a service (to remove his cranks) BLB agreed - but instead they destroyed his cranks - without wishing to sound glib = case closed.

BLB must (legally) meet its obligation here, to replace the destroyed item - the cost of the labour is a grey area I would rather not comment on.

As you say his loss in demonstrable. No contest here.

One other thing, (if it comes to it) pursuing a small claims action is super duper easy these days, simply log on to https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco/index.jsp enter your claim + pay the online fee by debit/credit card (I forget how much but I think around a ton) which will be added onto your claim amount and that's it job done.

But I do really think that there is no need as this could be resolved much quicker by speaking to BLB (?).

polybikeuser There's no need to feel bad about feeling awkward complaining, you can almost bet that BLB and the like rely on this.

+1[/quote]

You are of course completely right, it'd be stoopid and unnecessarily arguementative to go head straight for the small claims court, it makes much more sense to talk to BLB first, I was just trying to point out that if BLB didn't recognise their legal responsibilty or refused to meet them, it sounded like a pretty open andshut case to pursue through the small claims court.

You are of course more than welcome to call me Poly, it reassures me that I'm in touch with my femine side and a well rounded human being :)

I can't see that the issue of labour is a grey area. It was work that wasn't asked for or needed. Get the money refunded + cost of new cranks and go to a bike (not fashion) shop. Bicycle Magic is just down the road.

polybikeuser I was just trying to point out that if BLB didn't recognise their legal responsibilty or refused to meet them, it sounded like a pretty open andshut case to pursue through the small claims court.

Absolutely, if he were to make a claim they are unlikely to even contest it.

polybikeuser You are of course more than welcome to call me Poly, it reassures me that I'm in touch with my femine side and a well rounded human being :)

I think I might stick with 'Mr bikeuser' - I don't want to get entangled with any online gay scene ;P

polybikeuser [quote]broken_77 someone just walked in the shop saying he wants a bottom bracket for sugino crankset....i asked which one???? he goes sugino.....i said i cant sell you a bottom bracket unless i know what sugino.....he goes sugino...i go im not gonna sell it to you unless you tell me which sugino...and he walks awat pissed off.......someone through the conversation i told they vary in size and taper....no answer.......what should i have done?????? **draw i diagram **of sugino family tree?????

Mate, I don't know you, so don't want to pick a fight and neither have I ever worked in a bike shop, so maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about, but I spend my life explaining things like benefits and wellfare rights to people who don't understand that kind of stuff......so yes if necessary calmly and quietly draw the bloke a diagram.

I completely agree with your earlier point that retails shops like BLB can't compete on price with online stores because of the cost of premises/staff and that in a shop what punters are paying the extra for is the service, but they're also paying for your expert knowledge, this being the case it does seem a bit harsh to complain that customers don't share that same expert knowledge.

Unless the bloke was a complete argumentative twat it does, like I say, seem a bit harsh to complain that he needed you (the expert)to explain to him (the non-expert) that you need a different size bottom bracket depending on frame threading and which particular chainset you're running. In my experience this is the kind of thing that Brixton Cycles and the like deal with calmly and fairly effortlessly on a daily basis.[/quote]

i was really calm and effortless...........and as for brixton cycles i wish you could see ross in BC dealing calmly with customers sometimes:-).....and as for me being an expert...yeah thats what i did ...i asked which one???? as in which sugino chainset is he getting...all i wanted to hear is either 75 or messenger so then me "an expert" says either 103 jis taper or 109 iso....than i would have asked calmly what hub is he gonna use to match his chainline........
and as for me complaining...im not complaining ...i dont give a single flying fuck ...i was merely trying to present to all the people who complain about customer service how it looks from the other side of the barricade......and im not refering to the crank problem...more like general attitude of some people.....

another one.......can i have a tube,please???? what size??? kinda narrowish with knobles!!! Do you have the bike here??? no:-)
or my bike is making strange noise while pedaling,can i have some advice???? do you have your bike here??? NO:-).......

lucky that im a mystic so i can see the solutions in crystal ball

wheels https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco/index.jsp enter your claim + pay the online fee by debit/credit card (I forget how much but I think around a ton) which will be added onto your claim amount and that's it job done.

Yes! Finally!

Using this website, I'm going to sue my dad for not buying me that Raleigh Grifter I wanted for my 7th birthday. Thanks, wheels!

That's out of control, I'd have kicked off, taken a set off the wall and then not go back if I were you.

I went in a couple weekends ago, got quoted a price, then another price, and then yet another price.

It was like the haggle scene from Life of Brian.

Thanks for the contributions everybody - here is an update.

I took the cranks back today, armed with a printout of the ebay auction, and chatted with the girl on the counter about it. To their credit they were receptive and didn't try to browbeat me or use the "i know more about bikes than you" card.

I showed her the ebay auction, and she also checked ebay to see if she could find any confirmation of the price (£100). I didn't appreciate it when she pulled up an image of stronglight cranks with a similar set up (adaptor ring rather than built in spiders), but ones that were quite clearly different, trying to claim they were the same.

She also said that the £100 price tag was due to the ebay auction ones being 165 rather than 170 (the only way they were different from the cranks I have), and therefore track specific. Is this a reasonable argument? I could understand it, but I am not a stronglight expert. I think the price was more down to them being sold by hilary stone to americans.

By the way, I am not looking for £100, because I know I'm not going to get it based on an ebay auction and I tried my best to make this clear. ...Er, do you think i'm shooting myself in the foot slightly?

Essentially after a lot of deliberating on her part, she agreed to give me a replacement bottom bracket (because I didn't get the one they removed from the frame back [b]at all, something which I may have failed to mention), but she couldn't do anything about it because Yan (is that his name?) and the others are all in Mexico till next week. She gave me a carbon copy of a piece of paper detailing the cranks and what happening to them and told me she'd call back once they were back from their trip.

well, better than a wet fish in the face.

I reckon some new/replacement cranks wouldn't be out of the question.

170mm ones, naturally

That's sort of what I asked for. The sticking point really is them giving me a set of comparable value.

Oh i forgot to mention they're keeping ownership of the cranks for the time being, i guess so Yan can have a look at them. Hopefully this time they won't keep them in the bin :P

yeh they owe you replacements.

the supply of goods and services act 1982 IS YOUR FRIEND.

if you want to be really anal it's s13 duty to carry out service with reasonable care and skill. they haven't a leg to stand on in the circumstances.

oh and they owe you the value of what you would have if the service had been properly performed and nothing less. jan will know this, he used to be a lawyer.

So they owe me a crank set and bottom bracket, of equal value to the crank set and bottom bracket removed (and not given back), but I'm worried about how they will value the cranks.

Do you think jan will get into the nitty gritty of it; for example the cranks they removed didn't have the bolts and dust caps that held them on to the BB, because I had already removed them. Also, also, should I press for a chainring? That is really unique to the cranks and is therefore pretty much useless without them.