Rip Out the Traffic Lights

Rip out the traffic lights and railings. Our streets are better without them

Drivers and pedestrians negotiating shared space is shown to cut accidents and traffic, yet flat-earth planners won't believe it

Today's Guardian.... http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/feb/29/drugsandalcohol.guardiancolumnists

I was being explained this concept of shared space last week and then this popped up today in the paper. It makes a lot of sense, and its crazy that road design is simply about traffic engineers trying to get cars places as fast as possible along the shortest routes.

Does seem like traffic engineers think of the roads as pipes where they want the maximum rate of flow as possible.

Interesting idea. Isn't London quite unique in comparison to places like Berlin, in that the roads are quite narrow, because when they were built they simply weren't intended for the flow of traffic they have now?

One of the few progressive councils in Britain, London's Kensington and Chelsea, has bold politicians leading from the front. The deputy leader, Daniel Moylan, studied shared space abroad and designated Kensington High Street as an experiment (as if it needed one). Railings and crossings were removed. Pedestrians were encouraged to cross where they chose. Bicycle racks were placed on the central reservation. The whole street was tidied.

The effect over two years has been a dramatic cut in accidents, down 44% against a London average of 17%. Pedestrians and wheelchair users are no longer dragooned behind railings. Drivers have slowed and pedestrians look at drivers rather than traffic lights. Moylan did not have the courage to remove all lights, but perhaps that will come with the extension of the scheme to Exhibition Road. The experience has been a success.

High Street Kensington is good? :S It's ok, I mean the traffic is still pretty bad on there anyway. When I use the bus down there it takes forever to get through, easily the slowest part of my journey. It will be interesting to see how they change exhibition road. The biggest pain in the arse along there is the car parking spaces in the middle, and sides, and the fact that there are only 3 crossings along the whole length of it.

Whenever they started messing with High St Ken., 3 years ago? I think its def. way better for pedestrians and a street furniture perspective.

A good article, thanks for flagging it Runcible.

There does seem to be a real vested interest in the status quo - I wonder how much the manufacturers of street barriers / red lights etc. spend lobbying government and producing research to suggest councils buy more from them?

Examples (off the top of my head) for the myopic approach to roads are:

• Feb/Mar roadworks in London - am I overly cynical or are minor and cosmetic improvements ALWAYS made at the end of the tax year? Protect those budgets boys!

• Manhole covers: clearly fucking lethal for bikes & motorbikes. The reason why there's never been any innovation to improve them? Roads are the councils responsibility, drains are the water boards'. So the interface between the two (manhole covers to you & me) fall into a no man's land. Neither is willing to take responsibility for fear of the cost it will incur. (Just imagine how much nicer they'd be to cycle on if you just griptaped the fuckers!).

I think High St Ken is better than it was (it's the fucking roadworks slowing you down eeehhhh) and agree that putting responsibility for actions back in the hands of the road user is good for everyone. How often do you curse the ipod listening, wrong way looking, jaywalking ped that feels they have the god given right to do what they like because they've been herded to a designated crossing point?

Ridden down high street ken a couple times and didn't even realise they'd introduced this - i like the sound of it though - order out of chaos. Deep man. The main drag in Urumqi, China, population of millions, is like this (whether by design or not i don't know), but it worked really well - looks like carnage but you rarely see gridlock, and you can cycle through it np if you find the gaps.
Do it to Holloway Road!

Ahhh, I didn't realise there were roadworks - I read on the bus, sit upstairs and switch off because I get off at the last stop. I only moved here in September so I don't know what it was like before.

justMouse How often do you curse the ipod listening, wrong way looking, jaywalking ped that feels they have the god given right to do what they like because they've been herded to a designated crossing point?

Definitely... On a side note, I've noticed a lot of kids have got pretty bad at crossing. I was filtering down the middle of Lillie road towards traffic lights, 3 school girls stepped out from in front of a bus without even looking. Luckily I only nudged them with my front wheel - braked in time. I'm quite cautious now. What happened to the hedgehog road crossing adverts?!

Newsnight ran a bit on this in January - you can still watch it through the bbc website:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/7187165.stm

Sounds the way forward to me.

justMouse There does seem to be a real vested interest in the status quo

A picture of some matchstick men:

But where are the vests? I'm no longer interested.

i'm sure they both put vests on before they left, like good boys

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsPCsW3_aUY"]YouTube
- Crazy traffic in India[/ame]

Seems to work okay in India...

This reminds me of the idea behind the name of Critical Mass. Apparently the name comes from some guy observing traffic flows in China; cyclists would stop at busy intersections, usually standing together waiting to cross, once the number of cyclists at the junction reached 'critical mass' (once there were enough cyclists to form a bit of a 'block'), they'd roll out into the road and the other traffic would stop for them. You can see the same thing happening in this video.

I always figured that people would drive a lot better if there were no speed limits or road markings. People say 'but without speed limits, everyone would drive faster than is safe', but how many people actually want to risk their lives?

I heard about a friend of a friend who crashed into a wall while driving down a country lane. When asked about it, he said he'd been going about 70mph. Asked why the fck he'd do 70 on a thin country lane, he replied that he thought the national speed limit was the speed you're meant to go...

People need to be forced to make their own decisions. If people are forced to take responsibility for their own actions, it makes sense that they will act more responsibly. But then the whole idea of government is predicated by the fact that nobody wants to be responsible for their own life.

Ho hum...

Walworth road is great now they've removed all the bollocks.
Just generally feels calmer without the marking and signs bombarding yer senses.
Why stop there...keep it goin.

The newsnight thing was great, good to see the guardian thing.

Everyone I've talked to about this (even free thinking people) think its totally nuts. I guess I'm not putting the argument across well. I think its genius. Maybe we should start a militia, like the anti-speed camera lot, but go 'round sabotaging traffic lights?

^^^ Ignore him, he's pissed ;o)

thanks mouse

i am all for changing the morphology of our towns and cities if it works on health and safety for non motorised movement.

for this to work i think you have to slow the cars first.

for example motorways have no traffic lights but i would not recommend crossing one of those.

somebody for example motorways have no traffic lights but i would not recommend crossing one of those.

I think you gotta think about context, i doubt anyone would suggest this for motorways.

If anyone wants to read more on Shared Space theory check out [ame=http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial&hs=zFc&q=%22Hans+Monderman%22&btnG=Search&meta=]Hans Monderman[/ame] who is now dead, but theres another guy - [ame=http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial&hs=vaH&q=%22Ben+Hamilton+Bailey%22&btnG=Search&meta=]Ben Hamilton Bailey[/ame].

didn't that hans guy get hit by a truck?

seriously removing speed limits is a really bad idea, take down town denver as an example the roads are all rated at 30-35mph but most cars burn rubber off the lights and are doing 45ish because the streets are wide, the blocks are even and the traffic is light. at rush hour the hole place locks up, and you can walk/ cycle any where.

these theories are good but would only work in places where the streets are narrow and congested enough to keep traffic slow.

also i dont like the assumption that people think for them selves, as this does not hold much water when you look at your average person.

Did you read it chris? its not just about lifting speed limits, its about design to change behaviour.....

The shared space approach is based on the observation that individuals' behaviour in traffic is more positively affected by the built environment of the public space than it is by conventional traffic control devices (signals, signs, road markings, etc.) and regulations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_space

ah so it comes with a wider change of socety to make it work....

the concept is no different to most urban roads in a 3rd world country. very amusing to outsiders ^^^like that video (dont think india's still 3rd world tho?!), but to live through that day in day out is a nightmare. speeds are very slow. travel time increased for everyone, including cyclists. why? cos once you take out the lane markings (or in case above, ignore them) there is less space for cyclists. once you take out lanes, space for cyclists will be reduced. think oxford street peds on a saturday. no one travels in a straight line and you'd want to take up every available space (drivers will take on this mentality...if you've driven in one of those cities, youd know what i mean). imagine cycling through when there are loads of cars and peds, you not only stop for cars, but also for peds! simply cos everyone's got a right to the space. ok if you're at leisure, but annoying if you're commuting through. adv: drivers will be more mindful of others around them, and damages/fatalities/injuries will be reduced cos speeds are reduced. and IMO it's primary aim is to slow the overall pace down (life in general i hope!), which is pretty cool. no lights and no lanes is next best thing to pedestrianisation and perhaps should be done in very busy high streets where it is not possible to completely ban vehicles (most ideal option). but to do this outside them would create chaos and would build up a lot of agro

but hey, while we're at it, why dont we stop fckn queueing at gregg's, pret or tesco at lunchtime?! ;)

see thats what i mean, i dont think the solution is workable in morden times, we are at stge 1 trafic congestion, and un-safe roads... we (well some of us) want to be at stage 3 the no lights thing, but what about stage 2 how do we get there with out cuzing more problems.

i personally don't like this solution at all, i think we should reduce speed limits in urban areas for motor vehicles, give cyclist the right to jump lights and teach peds to look both ways before crossing the street, also ban hgv from central london 8am-6pm, lower the cost of public transport, eliminate any buss stop that is with in 1/4 mile of the last stop on the same route that is not a transfer to a new route, and take a way bendy busses, dubble the c charge for all trips that do not leave the c-charge zone, and for 4x4s

good article, thanks a lot, and useful for the project i am working on:

http://www.londonfgss.com/discussion/4448/commuting-distances/#Item_27

chris crash see thats what i mean, i dont think the solution is workable in morden times, we are at stge 1 trafic congestion, and un-safe roads... we (well some of us) want to be at stage 3 the no lights thing, but what about stage 2 how do we get there with out cuzing more problems.

i personally don't like this solution at all, i think we should reduce speed limits in urban areas for motor vehicles, give cyclist the right to jump lights and teach peds to look both ways before crossing the street, also ban hgv from central london 8am-6pm, lower the cost of public transport, eliminate any buss stop that is with in 1/4 mile of the last stop on the same route that is not a transfer to a new route, and take a way bendy busses, dubble the c charge for all trips that do not leave the c-charge zone, and for 4x4s

chris. is this not a little too cyclecentric?

I was told about this idea a few years ago. It sounds absolutely barmy when you first hear it, but it does begin to make sense. It would force drivers to ALWAYS pay attention, and not just assume that because its green that it's clear. A lot of bad stuff happens on the road because you're told to do so much that you can easily switch off.

On the other side of the fence, because we're all USED to it i think if they got rid of all traffic lights now London would probably explode from one giant vehicular collision.

queueing? at gregs? You must be joking! Just barge into the shop and scream PASTY, NOW. Works every time. Alternative solution would be to not go to greggs because the founder of the company was a known child molester (apparently)... he used to be the head master of kings school in the north east as well! haha