Headset/tube issues

I have floated around for a while and now have an excuse to say Hi as I have some problems with my 2nd hand track bike. Anyway I took my headset appart to clean it and get the expetience of doing this, but when taking it appart the bits that fit into the head tube just came out as well as the rest. As far as I know this isn's right. I suspect a crash and stretched head tube. I was thinking of getting some very thin metal sheet to make a shim to get the headset to fit again and was wondering if this is just a crap idea and if so why. Or if not if anyone knows of a suplier of very thin sheet metal. Or if I have to get a new head tube if anyone knows of a reasonable frame repairer. Thanks guys.
If this sounds garbled sorry im a bit drunk.

hey
the cause may not be crash.....here we go

some headsets cups are wider in diameter then the rest...in order to get in the frame you have to ream the headtube...if you dont the tube will crack.....so maybe the frame originaly had headset this size or the person who was preping the frame reamed the headtube too much...........solution 1: try the shim as you said......wouldnt recommend.....couple of my friends in warsaw done that...i wouldn't
solution II : try to use some kind of glue to glue them in...no idea which type or where to get..i wouldnt
solution III: go into a shop ask for thier whole range of headsets and see which one fits........had the same problem....fort frame M part headset glued in....installation/removal by bare hands:-)...not safe i guess......i tried chris king.........behold......perfect fit...maybe even need a bit of facing...

so there ......i would say go to brixton cycles...best bike shop ever......theyll sort you out....

hope this helps

Thanks Broken thats a masive help. Will try to get to brixton but its a bit out of my area. what do you think of the guys at brick lane or mosqito (near my house) or cavendish (near work) think they could help? Also what happend to your warsaw friends bikes? the shim has to be better than gluing. Also theres a guy on E-bay selling a condor with the headset glued in with epoxy!! rather not do that.

i think someone who works at cavendish posts on this forum. It's a good shop and i'm sure they'll be happy to help.

thanks asm, will try and get down there in the week.

JG Thanks Broken thats a masive help. Will try to get to brixton but its a bit out of my area. what do you think of the guys at brick lane or mosqito (near my house) or cavendish (near work) think they could help? Also what happend to your warsaw friends bikes? the shim has to be better than gluing. Also theres a guy on E-bay selling a condor with the headset glued in with epoxy!! rather not do that.

hey i work in brick lane ...not in the workshop though.......if you need parts and general help,wheel building...yes...but not such specific and a bit more difficult things like this........as for brixton cycles ...they are ace.....even though their main man Ross is not there for a while.......cavendish i dont know.......mosquito likewise...
and as for my warsaw friends...they ride, some of them brakeless and they are still alive:-).......but i guess its not a permanent trouble free solution cuz the shims must move every now and then....and the cups wont sit straight and true in the headtube the bearing will wear in more in some spots ....

gluing hard to say......

and yeah different headset, good option and the least painful....if you dont mind spending money for something which will help for sure.........anyway is the headset threadless or threaded???

and last..........im not saying for sure its not a result of the crash but i doubt it........

If your going for the shimming with sheet metal coke cans cut up are used alot for shimming handle bars/seatposts so I guess cut correctly they might be ok, since I'm scottish I find that you do get better results from Irn Bru cans though. Not sure if I really like the ideal of shimming a headset though it will make it very hard to install straight and getting the shim in correct all the way round.

daccordi If your going for the shimming with sheet metal coke cans cut up are used alot for shimming handle bars/seatposts so I guess cut correctly they might be ok, since I'm scottish I find that you do get better results from Irn Bru cans though. Not sure if I really like the ideal of shimming a headset though it will make it very hard to install straight and getting the shim in correct all the way round.
Damn right! they used to make bombers/spitfires/commandos daggers out of Irn Bru cans during the war!

JG Anyway I took my headset appart to clean it and get the expetience of doing this, but when taking it appart the bits that fit into the head tube just came out as well as the rest.

Pictures please !

Is this an integrated headset by any chance ?

There is a very small difference in headset diameters between ISO and JIS headsets. According to Sheldon, JIS is 30mm and ISO 30.2mm. Crown race size also differs by 0.2 mm too and works the opposite way (ISO dia smaller than JIS).

Therefore it stands that if you have a loose JIS headset, you could get it reamed to fit ISO instead, but you'd also have to remove some material from the crown too, unless...

...has anyone ever mixed JIS crown race with ISO cups?

There is a very small difference in headset diameters between ISO and JIS headsets. According to Sheldon, JIS is 30mm and ISO 30.2mm. Crown race size also differs by 0.2 mm too and works the opposite way (ISO dia smaller than JIS).

Therefore it stands that if you have a loose JIS headset, you could get it reamed to fit ISO instead, but you'd also have to remove some material from the crown too, unless...

...has anyone ever mixed JIS crown race with ISO cups?

Thanks for all the advice. I will try to get some pictures tynan but it's a shimano 600 if that makes things clearer.

sorry broken didn't read everything clearly. its a threaded headset

Haven't posted here before, but hope this may be helpful.
Worth checking the cups which came out, to check that they have not been filed down! In December I had a bike in to fit a new headset and found that the previous one had been fitted by filing the cups down rather than reaming the head tube. Presumably the person had no reamer.
A new head set went in perfectly after reaming the tube (which still had paint inside it from a respray).
M

Thanks all. I think I need to get someone to look at it but feel a bit better as no one has mentioned about having to get the head tube replaced as I was thinking this might be the only option.

JG Thanks for all the advice. I will try to get some pictures tynan but it's a shimano 600 if that makes things clearer.

Shimano 600 is not an integrated headset, so you can ignore that idea! :)

ChrisNW There is a very small difference in headset diameters between ISO and JIS headsets. According to Sheldon, JIS is 30mm and ISO 30.2mm. Crown race size also differs by 0.2 mm too and works the opposite way (ISO dia smaller than JIS).

Therefore it stands that if you have a loose JIS headset, you could get it reamed to fit ISO instead, but you'd also have to remove some material from the crown too, unless...

...has anyone ever mixed JIS crown race with ISO cups?

Ha! I've got the same problem with my Mercian road/path frame... Mog at Brixton Cycles said I should try getting hold of an old Campy headset cuz a lot of them measured 30.2mm at the crown race and that 'might' solve the ovalised headtube, didn't realise it was just a JIS/ISO thing... Everyone I spoke to about geting hold of one didn't know what I was on about?! Nice one Chris! :)
Who makes a traditional (i.e. old skool) ISO 1" threaded headset then? Anyone got a cheap one for sale?

how loose are the cups? do they fall out entirely or will they sit in the tube? I had a problem with a 1985 peugeot where one of the cups was slightly loose. it stayed in the tube without wiggling about but could be pulled out by hand, if you get me. didn't bother replacing it, I just make sure my headset is properly tightened and have had no difficulties with it.

teenslain: Try cyclebasket, I got a Tange one from them. Stack height a bit short though, so had to use an extra 5mm spacer. Fairly cheap. Exact same as the Standard ISO 1" sizes on here, I measured it with a vernier.

ChrisNW teenslain: Try cyclebasket, I got a Tange one from them. Stack height a bit short though, so had to use an extra 5mm spacer. Fairly cheap. Exact same as the Standard ISO 1" sizes on here, I measured it with a vernier.

Cheers Chris, you iz a diamond geezer, SJS wanted an extra tenner for one?!
Just ordered it, fingers firmly crossed!
Joe :)

get some coke can in the bastard! Job done

Right,
Couldn't be arsed to get someone to look at it so shimmed both cups and the fork crown race with Guinness (ummm) cans.
Everything seemed ok for a while but now the nuts keep working loose, and when tightening the lock nut when the adjusting nut is tight enough it seems to slip the thread.
Thinking about getting the Chris King Grip Nut headset from aspire velotech in the US. Anyone delt with them or used a grip nut.

http://www.ebikestop.com/store/search.aspx?&Page=1&Sort=5&scat=12754&key=Chris%20King cheeper, at least for threadless