Bottom Bracket Apoclaypse...

All I was trying to do was get all the bits from my sweet fucking red bike onto the fucking super sweet Merican without any help from my LBS...
BB came out OK after three visits to Brixton Cycles (first visit for advice, second for a crank puller, third for a 35mm Park spanner) but now it just doesn't work!?!?
It's cleaned and reinstalled (according to Zinn) but non-functioning... Axle doesn't rotate AT ALL although I've followed all the instructions from Lenny... Everything seemed fine (all bits cleaned, greased and re-assembled correctly(?)) 'til I started tightening the lock ring, it turned the crank and the whole bloody BB started unravelling!! I know it ain't rocket science, but where have I gone wrong?
I realise that without one of you guys standin' over my shoulder it's impossible to know what I'm on about, BUT... Any tips? I'm stumped, and I really wanna do this on my own (with the LFGSS bredrens help o' course)... Pffffttt!!!

Sounds like the lock ring has grabbed (and turned) the non-drive BB cup ?

Did you grease the lock ring ?

Did you hold the non-drive BB cup in position as you tightened the lock ring ?

Hey Tynan, I greased everything, didn't hold the non drive side tho'... Is that the imperative? I was in a bit of a threadin'/3D chess situation for a bit... Solution was go to a pub in *North London*** (dour, dour, dour)** and get pissed... Determined to do this on my ownsome... Pride an' all that... Pffft... Bike mechin' is shit when it ain't goin your way... :/

teenslain Hey Tynan, I greased everything, didn't hold the non drive side tho'... Is that the imperative?

Depends, as you have furnished us with little detail it is hard to say, you have told us about 'Zinn' and 'Lenny' and 'Brixton Cycles' (and how many times you have been there) and what tools you have bought, can you see your way to sharing what type and make of BB you have ?!?

:)

The reason I asked about whether you had greased the lock ring was that if it was not greased it would be more likely to grab and turn the non-drive BB cup (even if only a little).

And some of your post might need clarifying before you get a decent (and correct) diagnosis.

"'til I started tightening the lock ring, it turned the crank and the whole bloody BB started unravelling!!"

Are you saying here that when you turned (tightened) the lock ring the crank turned ?

what do you mean by *'unravelling' *?

Allow yourself to be specific, try a little "the drive side cup started to unscrew' or 'the spindle moved towards the non-drive side" etc etc.

Sorry to sound like a teacher, but it is hard to offer decent advice with just sketchy information ! :)

Now, if you have a loose ball type BB and you didn't hold the non-drive cup (the adjustable cup) in position whilst tigtening down the lockring you might have nudged the cup a little tighter than you should have done.

The difference on a loose ball BB between having - too much play - being just right - and being too tight/binding - is often less than a quarter of a turn, but should't be too difficult to get right.

Read this: http://sheldonbrown.com/cone-adjustment.html

If, you have a cartridge type BB you might have worn or striped BB shell threads ?

Reverse Thread?

I assume you have the old-non-sealed/cartridge type BB otherwise what follows is nor correct (i.e. you do have loose ballbearings that you can tighten the cups on to).
If my assumption is right then maybe you tightened the lockring-side cup onto the bearings too much?

1. So ...take the cranks off.
   
2. Take the lock-ring off.
   
3. Loosen the lock-ring cup until the axle has some play in it, then tighten it in just a little so that it turns freely, but no play.
   
4. Then tighten the lockting on whilst making sure that the cup does not turn (and that there is no play when you are done.
   
5. Put cranks on, should be good now .....?
   

aye thats the way !! fix it when pissed i always find it works a treat

The other thing is maybe the thread has stripped .... if on the cup, not too bad replace it ... if on the BB then you can have it re-tapped but must be done by a framebuilder .... expensive

tynan [quote]teenslain Hey Tynan, I greased everything, didn't hold the non drive side tho'... Is that the imperative?

Depends, as you have furnished us with little detail it is hard to say, you have told us about 'Zinn' and 'Lenny' and 'Brixton Cycles' (and how many times you have been there) and what tools you have bought, can you see your way to sharing what type and make of BB you have ?!?

:)

The reason I asked about whether you had greased the lock ring was that if it was not greased it would be more likely to grab and turn the non-drive BB cup (even if only a little).

And some of your post might need clarifying before you get a decent (and correct) diagnosis.

"'til I started tightening the lock ring, it turned the crank and the whole bloody BB started unravelling!!"

Are you saying here that when you turned (tightened) the lock ring the crank turned ?

what do you mean by *'unravelling' *?

Allow yourself to be specific, try a little "the drive side cup started to unscrew' or 'the spindle moved towards the non-drive side" etc etc.

Sorry to sound like a teacher, but it is hard to offer decent advice with just sketchy information ! :)

Now, if you have a loose ball type BB and you didn't hold the non-drive cup (the adjustable cup) in position whilst tigtening down the lockring you might have nudged the cup a little tighter than you should have done.

The difference on a loose ball BB between having - too much play - being just right - and being too tight/binding - is often less than a quarter of a turn, but should't be too difficult to get right.

Read this: http://sheldonbrown.com/cone-adjustment.html

If, you have a cartridge type BB you might have worn or striped BB shell threads ?[/quote]

Hey Tynan,
Cheers mate, was pissed as a fart when I posted that...
BB is an old loose bearing cup and cone job, it has a Stronglight axle tho' the drive side cup is a Shimano for some reason(?)...
I cleaned the whole thing up, repacked with grease then reassembled...
The threads are all fine, problem I had was while tightening the lockring, it unscrewed the drive-side cup back out of the shell...
I finally managed to get the lockring on but then there wasn't any play left in the axle...
I gave up after three attempts cuz I was scared I *would *strip the threads on the nearly 50 year old BB shell...
First time messin' about with a BB so maybe I'll watch my LBS do it this time and try it myself next time... Or just buy a new cartridge BB...
Cheers mate, Joe ( B¬D

Zippie I assume you have the old-non-sealed/cartridge type BB otherwise what follows is nor correct (i.e. you do have loose ballbearings that you can tighten the cups on to).
If my assumption is right then maybe you tightened the lockring-side cup onto the bearings too much?

1. So ...take the cranks off.
   
2. Take the lock-ring off.
   
3. Loosen the lock-ring cup until the axle has some play in it, then tighten it in just a little so that it turns freely, but no play.
   
4. Then tighten the lockting on whilst making sure that the cup does not turn (and that there is no play when you are done.
   
5. Put cranks on, should be good now .....?
   

I'll try that tonight, cheers!
Realised last night the rear spacing on this frame is actually 110mm and not the 120mm described on eBay...
One step forward, two steps back... :/

Everyone's given good advice so far, I've got a couple of things to add:

First make sure the drive side cup is bastard tight (there's probably a correct torque spec somewhere but this always works for me) before you do anything to non-drive side.

Zippie

1. Then tighten the lockring on whilst making sure that the cup does not turn (and that there is no play when you are done.
   
   
   

Making sure that the cup doesn't turn is the critical point. There is a special tool for this (usually a pin spanner) which fits into the holes on the non drive side cup to hold it still while you do up the lockring (which needs to be pretty tight).

The pin spanner is second from bottom here (the black dots are the pins) and the hole in the end of it is for the fixed cup. Byu the way the tool above it is the BB lockring tool.