Mail order fixed

To be honest I know people who build track frames from plain gauge for the extra strength, they claim the increased stiffness is a good trade off for a bit of extra weight, but I agree a road frame would be crazy in plain gauge especially considering the cost of butted tubesets in this country (although I think Charge build mainly from plain gauge looking at their other products so it may just be a case of what they keep in stock).

charge bikes are built in taiwan by a factory that builds bikes for lots of other bike companies, they will have access to all kinds of tubes in various butting profiles.

(i know about this as a friend owns a bike company that builds in taiwan using the same factory that some of the brands mentioned on this forum use.)

BillB To be honest I know people who build track frames from plain gauge for the extra strength, they claim the increased stiffness is a good trade off for a bit of extra weight, but I agree a road frame would be crazy in plain gauge especially considering the cost of butted tubesets in this country (although I think Charge build mainly from plain gauge looking at their other products so it may just be a case of what they keep in stock).

Butted tubing is normally used to build a lighter frame that is equally as strong as plain gauge tubing.
But, surely then by saving weight using butted tubing you could uses bigger diameter tubing or add more material in other places, basically, to make the frame stiffer?
Mmm... gussetts :)

Butted tubing is not as strong, but it removes metal where it doesn't NEED to be as strong on a typical bike. there is very little latteral stress on the top tube of a bike, the only stress is compression down the length of a tube, so a butted tube which is thinner in the middle is less strong to lateral stress than plane gauge, but the bike (in normal use) will rarely see any latteral stress so in use it will appear to be as strong, Crash however and put stress on the bike in ways the designer did not intend and you will soon find butted tubes dent and fold much quicker than plain gauge.

You can use larger diameter tube which is stiffer, but then you lose the springy compliance of the frame and the ride becomes harsh.

Gussets are a strange addition to frames, they have to be very well designed, look at some of the DMR frames of old and the gusset actually focuses the stress on a small area of the tube, they cause localised cracking (usually at the end of the gusset where the corner of it is welded to the tube, the heat of the welding making the metal more brittle doesn't help here) and generally do little for the actual strength of the frame. But if done correctly they can add a lot of strength, although if you design the frame with the correct tubes then gussets should not really be necessary for all but the most hardcore users.

If I wanted a real solid bomb proof hack bike I would probably look at plain gauge tubing for a number of reasons, overall strength (especially for when its chained up and gets knocked about, and I fall off it) and cost, especially in the far east plain gauge steel is much cheaper (probably why charge are using it, there is much less wastage in mass production). if I wanted a light weight road bike that I would take more care of then butted would be my choice.

so, is the plug good then? :S

There are a couple of us who have them on here, me and clefty are the only ones stupid enough to admit it on a regular basis...

I don't really notice the weight (honest) and am 1/2 way through a post purchase upgrade plan, so will see what faster tyres will do for it. But it still looks and rides mighty fine.

I saw one in the flesh and did not think much of the finish on the parts. TBH £400 is a lot of money for a PG frame with very ordinary components - compare it to the Fuji Track at around £275 online or even better the Lemond Fillmore at just over £400 and it looks even worse value and very weighty. Frames come up very big too...

I plan to buy either of the above, sell on most of the parts and end up with a much better basic custom build (handbuilt Formula/Mavic/DT wheels, Campag chainset, F brake, Nitto bars, etc) for around £500 - £600. If you shop around you will be able to build up a much better bike for not a lot more cash.

Dose any one know how they produce butted tubing. Straight gauge is clearly just extruded but what about butted. Do they just take a straigh tube and machine out hte middle?

Butted is extruded but the centre plug they use is moved closer to the hole they are forcing the hot steel out of to make the tube wall thinner. I think Columbus' website had an animation of it.

Nice butts

http://www.desperadocycles.com/The_Lowdown_On_Tubing/About_Steel_Tubing_page3.htm

There's a Plug parked regularly on Middlesex street. Anyone here?
Also, who's the rider always heading west in the mornings on one - usually spot him on Sussex Gardens or Bayswater Rd.