Midnight Ridazz

velocity boy
If you knew how hard they have been trying to shut down critical mass then you'd realise some of the problems the police have been giving people.

As far as I remember the police have only been hassling CM in the last year or so, since the protest exclusion zone around parliamnet came into force. Part of that is probably to do with the fact that CM is at least partially a political protest, plus it's always clogged up with hippies flyering fully political protests of various sorts. The exclusion zone is half a mile around parliamant and so avoiding that will avoid some of the problems. Obey traffic rules and you'll avoid most of the others. (BTW - I strongly oppose the idea of the exclusion zone and the way that it's enforced, but I'm just giving realistic advice about this ridazzzzzzz business).

Now, if you just happen to get together at a place in time, if it's done by the people and the ethos is spread without there being leaders/organisers. If no-one dictates the route (as they'd be a leader/organiser if they did)... then what do you have? Not a parade, not a protest, not anything definable except for traffic. Traffic isn't so bad, the city has a lot of that already.

Not sure of the "no ones organising this officer" excuse will really wash if the police actually mind people riding around on bikes cos they'll find a way to cause hassle. Also if the "midnite ridazzz" don't have a police escort and start obstructing london's finest cabbies and other assorted cunts-in-cars then the ride will stop being fun pretty quickly as cars hit bikes and fights break out. Hopefully that won't happen, but it's important to remember that the police have two roles at CM: 1. being twats; 2. stopping other people being twats.

I'm saying that if you say that Joe Bloggs has organised it all, and he's promoted something and got people along, and planned a route, etc. Then should something happen, say an accident, then as Joe Bloggs organised the route you could very easily argue in court that he was responsible for the events that led up to the accident and possibly the accident itself as it was his route that put that rider in that position.

If there is a basis for liability and the risks associated or cost to the community can be mitigated, then the organisers will probably have some onus to mitigate those risks.

So if it's likely that 200 people will need a piss, then as it's probably antisocial to have them piss by the road, the organiser is probably responsible for mitigating the risk to public health by ensuring that adequate facilities are provided.

If you have an organiser, a named person who's sorted stuff out, and if the numbers reach the point that will attract attention then you have the basis of responsibility for the events being on one set of shoulders and the burden of that responsibility being large.

If you do not have an organiser, if no-one is in control, then this is simply a lot of individuals who happen to be on the road at the same time. No-one can reasonably be held accountable, and there is no target for any such action. Each person is responsible for their own individual risk.

This is why Critical Mass continues, because there is no leader to blame or hold accountable.

13 people, 50 people, those numbers will be ignored. But 100+ people, every month... the police aren't so daft as to not notice that kind of thing in Central London. Should anything happen, it will be noticed sooner.

People can certainly step forward and be the organiser if they wish, but know the risks. Not the risks to the event, but to you personally for organising it. I won't accept that risk in my personal life, I'll only accept responsibility for my own riding and behaviour, not yours or that of a group of riders.

If it's likely to grow (which it is, even without starting it yet the growth elsewhere shows it works) then it is best operated without the burdensome overhead involved. And without a leader, no-one can be held accountable for that overhead, and so it doesn't really exist (not true, but true enough for the example).

Momentum
Not sure of the "no ones organising this officer" excuse will really wash if the police actually mind people riding around on bikes cos they'll find a way to cause hassle. Also if the "midnite ridazzz" don't have a police escort and start obstructing london's finest cabbies and other assorted cunts-in-cars then the ride will stop being fun pretty quickly as cars hit bikes and fights break out. Hopefully that won't happen, but it's important to remember that the police have two roles at CM: 1. being twats; 2. stopping other people being twats.

That is actually a bloody fine point.

Velocity you sound anti-fun, that's not a personal attack, but how do you have any fun worrying so much. We've had 3k people and Ridazz in LA, in the most litigious society in the world, against the LAPD one the best equipped Police departments in the world, yet we manage.

coz, london plods are ghey! and shoot innocent people who jump over turnstyles at the tube ;)

The roads are pretty narrow too.

hippy You love it..

i have just woken up, have i missed anything of merit :yawn:

franz Velocity you sound anti-fun, that's not a personal attack

Er, right.

Nope, not anti-fun. When you're in London come out for a ride, have a beer, I'll tell you in person (not via a public website) why I'm cautious and giving warnings like this.

The rides should go ahead. Totally up for them. And if someone wants to take on the risk and organise stuff, then go for it. Or we could just do it loosely without an organiser. Whatever, it doesn't matter how it happens, just make it happen.

Pff dogsballs... that happened years ago, LAPD does that once a month as a practice excercise.

I'll be there in a few weeks, see you there.

+1 to everything velocity boy says. i've experienced CM years ago in london and new york before any hassle; i've also experienced the police violence in new york since their clampdown (see the film, 'still we ride' for more info) and also the "sanitised" version of critical mass as it now occurs in london. to be honest, i actually thought the london cops were pretty reasonable last friday - although still meat heads and out to be the most important person around (saw one officer shouting at a pedestrian for trying to cross the road through the mass; another one shouted at me when i banged lightly on the side of a car who was trying to drive into the mass having not realised - and i was then threatened with "criminal damage" prosecution briefly; finally, saw another cyclist told by one police officer to stay in front of a car, and then was shouted at by another cop further down the line). i'd say that the cops and (political) attitudes and interpretations of anything that might be interpreted as political - even if it's not - are very different on either side of the pond.

franz In LA we have organizers for Ridazz, it makes for a more exciting themed ride. Spoke cards or leaflets are put out with the route and we take off. If we were stopped by the police no one would say who the organizer is. Who would tell the police that, or hand them a route card? Basically after the route cards are handed out anything goes, unless there a planned stops or events.

We also have lot's of problems with Police in Santa Monica Critical Mass (westside LA) but they never look for anyone specifically. Besides me, but thats just because I'm the most obvious bastard corking the streets.

jetlag [quote]franz We also have lot's of problems with Police in Santa Monica Critical Mass (westside LA) but they never look for anyone specifically. Besides me, but thats just because I'm the most obvious bastard corking the streets.
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http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6ShyjTpkIis

check out the site in LA - http://midnightridazz.com/
another link worth reading - http://midnightridazz.com/about.php

Lots of info, pictures and above all it's all about fun. We try to avoid confrontation with motorists and the police as much as possible, it's not supposed to be political..... "You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar".
If you are ever in LA come check out the Ridazz.

velocity boy [quote]dogsballs we already do them don't we?
bridges
docklands
halloween

Yes and no.

We do night rides, but we don't do regular night rides that aim to be as fun and accessible as possible for absolutely anyone and with the emphasis purely on the fun, good stuff.

If you think we do then do you think 15 > 20 miles by night down narrow cobblestone paths along the Thames in darkness, is fun and accessible for anyone on a bike?

So we do night rides. But we don't do big night rides around the West End, purposefully to bring in as many riders as possible and have a laugh. Cruising the streets making noise and a rolling party on wheels. That we don't do.[/quote]

Best part about the midnight ridazz is the website is non exclusive and infact encourages folks to start their own rides, post them on the website and this allows the growing critical mass to view what's happening, write in the forums (create your own) and basically get the spokes out!! The site could be used to advertise rides in London and start a new trend. Everytime an MR event happens we always get asked by passers by "what are you doing?!@"
A guy called Roadblock administers the MR site if anyone is interested. Ride ON!!!