Spoke lengths, wheel build

So I have decided to venture into unknown territory and learn the fine art of wheel building, I have a pile of components in front of me and am trying to figure out these spoke length calcs so I can tie it all together. Dt Swiss unfortuantely does not list any of my parts on its calculator.

Front- Phil high flange 32h track hub, Velocity deep V; radial lacing.
Rear- White Industries ENO 36h, Velocity deep V; crows' foot.

If any of you can help me figure out what I need it would be greatly appreciated.

guesses
front 250-5mm ish
rear 290mm if high flange, or 306mm low

i used this one to figure it out, has numoerous types of wheels and hubs put in the ones which are yours and hey presto correct erd and spoke lengths
just download the excel document and search thru.

http://www.damonrinard.com/spocalc.htm

Well done into taking the plundge. It is not stat hard.

If you want theory go here http://www.geocities.com/spokeanwheel/

A good calc I use is here

http://www.recumbents.com/wisil/spokes!.asp

When it says rim dimiter you need to find out the effective rim dimiter of your rim so google for erd Velocity deep V or efective rim dimimter Velocity deep V

thanks for the fast responses.

Sheldon Brown for lacing instructions.

Lacing and building is not hard. The tricky part is getting the tension up to snuff and even throughout the wheel. In the upcoming orgy of consumerism thats about to descend, may be you should get the people who like you (or are related to you) to spring for these (in order of usefulness):

1 x Park Black (and then Red+Green) nipple wrenches.
1x Spin Dr/Minoura truing stand (50 USD in the states - an eye watering 70 quid in the UK) - Obviously you can use your frame, but to get really solid wheels you'll need some kind of truing stand and this is one of the cheapest decent stands that I've used. Much much better than the Park home mechanic stand. The M-Wave stands probably ok.
1 x Dishing tool - makes life much easier for road wheels and the like
1 x Park TM-1 Tensionmeter - Wonderful, easy to use. Allows you to check and maintain even tension throughout your wheelbuild. Again, wicked expensive here for some reason.
1 x Bicycle Research Nipple Driver - Saves so much time during the initial lacing
1 x DT Swiss spoke punch (for the anal wheel builder in you) - allows you to get the spoke hubs flush with the rim for the final professional touch.

I'll also heartily recommend "The Art of Wheelbuilding" by Gert Schradner, which has a really easy to follow lacing guide for 32h x 3cross that is a great starting point for wheelbuilding.

Pretty much second everything that Pip said. the dishing tool is actually quite important, especially if it's a one-sided sprocket rear hub. a good set of nipple wrenches are invaluable. used a cheapo one before and it rounded the nipples rather badly. and yes...don't use alloy nipples...stick with brass.

now..you can make a very good dishing tool yourself. i also made my own truing stand out of mdf and it works a treat (and didn't cost me a thing). i check if the tension is even by using a plastic spatula to pick the spokes and listening to the sound. if all make the same 'ping' then they are even.

"Wheel Building" by Roger Musson is a good book and is available as a pdf.

http://www.damonrinard.com/spocalc.htm

This spreadsheet should have your hub and rim dimensions on it. It'll calculate the length too.

Failing that, you'll need to get hold of some vernier calipers and measure them yourself.

I think Phil Wood have most of their hub stats for wheelbuilding in the tech section of their website - I don't about White Industries. Otherwise try emailing them - also try contacting Velocity for your rim stats if they don't have them on their site.

just curious why you're doing a crow's foot lacing on your first wheel build? a 3-cross is a good way to start out and builds very solid wheels. and no messing about with too many different spoke lengths.

I just noticed you are doing crows foot on the rear. Just a thought but may be take an old wheel and have a go at a three cross rebuild just to give you an idea then try the crows foot.

...Oh hello Hovis has it covered

I have been overwhelmed by the tool thing, thank you for the suggestion, I feel like my response should be- "but, nobody loves me that much", too bad it is not closer to Christmas, but then receiving is not my thing, especially when I have to ask for what I want. That said I think I should do this first build on the cheap, since I just spent alot on new parts for several bikes(poor planning I know) I have an old classmate who is a righteous mechanic and will likely loan me some tools, but I hate to do that too because I taking business away from the folks who do this for a living. My thought is I will do the build in a frame and then take it to him and pay him to do the final true and check everything out so I am not going it alone. So what are the non-essentials?

essentials: good nipple wrenches. the right length spokes. brass nipples. and patience. my first set of wheels were built on teh frame and i found some masking tape and toothpicks helped with the truing.

I built mine with a flat head screw driver, cheapo truing stand from Wiggle and a nipple wrench. Bit of oil too for the spoke heads.

Tension meter is a very useful too, I wish I had one. I just plucked each spoke and made sure they were of a similar pitch.

Thank you Hovis, that is the type of ingenuity I was looking for. I have some nice aluminum stock, think I will build a stand from that. I am not sure my hearing is good enough for the spatula trick.

well, figure radial is as easy as it gets on the front. then move on to the crows foot, I think I will be ok once I fogure the spoke lenghts.

Roger Musson from Wheelpro's e-book gives you plans to build your own stand from MDF and a dishing guage from a sheet of cardboard and a nipple driver from an old screwdriver.. looks a piece of piss

Wheelbuilding

Yes, I have paid for it. And I have an email address.

adoubletap Roger Musson from Wheelpro's e-book gives you plans to build your own stand from MDF and a dishing guage from a sheet of cardboard and a nipple driver from an old screwdriver.. looks a piece of piss

Wheelbuilding

Yes, I have paid for it. And I have an email address.

built both and yes...with the right tools it is a piece of piss to build. works a treat, too.

oooh, looks good.

adoubletap Roger Musson from Wheelpro's e-book gives you plans to build your own stand from MDF and a dishing guage from a sheet of cardboard and a nipple driver from an old screwdriver.. looks a piece of piss

Wheelbuilding

Yes, I have paid for it. And I have an email address.

Is that an offer, I have an email address also - tjt@sol.dk

one thing about building radial - don't use oil.
spokes will tend to slip in the nipples when you lace radial with oil and you end up with a wheel that requires truing from time to time.

Yah, I was thinking about that phil stuff that works as a lube then dries as a thread loc.

edmundane one thing about building radial - don't

that's better ;)