The Philosophy Discussion

begins here.

edited (how do delete post?)

nah mate you can't force the philosophy, it has to be spontaneous ... :P

My well thought out contribution..

just let go

if you delete a post no-one reads did it ever exist ?
oh yeah and ....
what is the difference between a duck

the-smiling-buddha just let go

the-smiling-buddha just let go

Is this advice for the chronically constipated ?

dicki if you delete a post no-one reads did it ever exist ?

Yes.

Not so much philosophy, but...

Surely if we're coming out of an ice age the ice caps are meant to be melting? Theyve been melting for millions of years... Are we being told it's because of global warming because western countries are running out of fuel and having to rely on other countries for it and want us to use less of it so that western countries still have control?

I dunno, I thought that recently and didn't know who else to ask, I only know art students...

Jake Surely if we're coming out of an ice age the ice caps are meant to be melting?

Not sure what this sentence means ?

Jake Are we being told it's because of global warming because western countries are running out of fuel and having to rely on other countries for it and want us to use less of it so that western countries still have control?

We are being told the the ice caps are melting because of man-made global warming, because the overwhelming consensus amongst scientists is that this is the case.

Well I was talking to my friend who studies something, I can't remember what, he was saying the ice caps are actually melting because they're meant to be melting because since the end of the ice age the world has been warming up anyway and is still meant to be. But I guess global warming has accelerated it. So they'd be melting anyway, but global waming has sped up the rate they melt?

I dunno, he just told me this (guess it was an opinion) and it got me to thinking. Just wondered if anyone knew why I shouldn't think this.

Yeah golbal warming has spead up the rises in tempratue plus it is increasing the overall rise in temratue. The trouble is the atmosphere is a very complicated dymanical system so concreat predictions are dam near impossible. However there are reagions of solutions so to speark and the probability of ending up in one of the "bad" regions is increase greatly with the burning of fossile fules. Ofcourse we may well find out that nothing much happens. However if something does happen if will happen quickly in terms of geological time scales. Plus what could happen (within a good probability) could be any thing from southernen Europe become more desert like and the sea level rises, change in the golf stream to as bad as the world getting in a posivie feed back situation where the tempratue keeeps on rising due to meathane being realsed into the atmosphere. Now as with many things we do not know for sure what will happen. However there is a very good chance that without intervention there will be seriouse effect on the world with in the next 100 years. The question you have to ask your self is

"Do you feel lucky punk? Well do you?"

to not do anything because the concecqueses are immense.

If I came to you and said random draw on you. I say give up drinking coke /sprite whatever during the week or take a random draw with me. If the draw pulls up a 1 I get to kill you now, if the draw pulls up 2 -100 you get to live as if nothing had happend. Now that is quite a gable to take over a few cans of fizzy drink even though the odds are 99% in your favour. Now think if someone was saying if you don't try and reduce your carbon output many may die many may need to move, animal species may become extinct e.t.c but the odds are reversed and that is the situation we have at the moment.

the last ice age was 10,000 years ago which is very short time af far as the history of the earth is concerned...in fact it's modern history....this shows that extreme fluctuations in the earth's climate are perfectly normal, we currently are experiencing minor fluctuations, we have no idea whether these will abate, continue or increase in the coming years......Humans being the cause or contributing to these increases is probable but not proven....isn't there a single volcano that pumps out more greenhouse gases per day than all the worlds cars put together?

You can not prove 100% that the current climet change is being increased by humans but it is very probible. There has been massive amount of reasearch into this area and the vast majority of it points toward us increaseing the global warming. It make sence from what we have observed on other planets. The vast vast majority of people who studdy this are wiht out dout. They have seen alot more evidance than any of us. They understand it alot more than any of us. They have tought about it alot more than anyof us. The information that most people get is little snipet through the media that as with most items due to what ever reasons does not explain things very well, and infact leaves many questions. That is the media they don't understand what they are reporting most of the time when it comes to anything technical. Remember the physics of what goes on is well unsderstood. The problems are with the complex dynamics of the system. Even with all of this the observation and models still point towards man made climet change in 99 % of cases.

P.S Volcanos tend to pump out sulpher I think which has different effects. Though I may be wrong.

Somehow, filing the philosophy debate under Miscellaneous & Meaningless seems a little ironic.

Some I met said to me something along the lines of

"pholosiphers are always depressed because every time they seem to get a hold on a subject it gets taken away from them by science and they are left without meaning again"

Forget the polar ice caps for a second.. do you LIKE breathing in exhaust fumes?
Case closed.

Oh wait, not very fillo-soft-pastry of me.. how about... if an XTR driveline sh1ts itself in the woods.. ;)

I'm more of a hippy than the one who calls himself hippy anyday....and I'm prepared to fight him over it!

However I'm always sceptical of what we're being told, the perceived wisdom etc, etc....history shows we have been constantly lied to especially in times of conflict like wot we are in now....personally I can't wait for the oil to run out......then I can sit back and watch the American economy and society implode...hopefully Europeans will be a little more used to car-free living....third world countries certainly will be.....wouldn't it be nice if the oil runs out just before global warming goes too far....there has to be a finite limit to the carbon available to release into the air and it was all there before wasn't it? before it got photosynthesised into ancient plants and animals (fossil fuels) phew what a ramble.........

winston However I'm always sceptical of what we're being told, the perceived wisdom etc, etc....history shows we have been constantly lied to especially in times of conflict like wot we are in now....

See this is what I was sceptical of. Because scientists can prove pretty much anything. If I had enough money I might even be able to have them prove global warming has nothing to with anything we are in control of.

But then of course theres the idea we all live in a World of Warcraft type computer game and are actualy being controlled by humans (we are merely artificial intelligence) and so global warming is pretty unimportant if you compare it to that...

Winston said: "There has to be a finite limit to the carbon available to release into the air and it was all there before wasn't it? "

Yep and the locking away of this has give us the climet the world has seen for the past how ever many thousend of years. The climet was very different.

But it has been raing alot this summer which I don't like so ...

Yeah I agree with chanllenging what you are told. Thats why we don't still belive that the world is flat and only 4000 years old (well ok some parts of America still seem to think that). The only problem is the complicated nature of global warming. I would not trust the policiains but science as a whole is a safer (note safer not safe) bet.

Lets say all of the oil did run out quickly, say with in a 5 year period. What would all of you do?

I mean getting food into big cities would be difficult power e.t.c What do you think would happen? Do you think there woul be anarchy? and worst of all how would all of the njs parts get here?

Jake [quote]winston However I'm always sceptical of what we're being told, the perceived wisdom etc, etc....history shows we have been constantly lied to especially in times of conflict like wot we are in now....

See this is what I was sceptical of. Because scientists can prove pretty much anything. If I had enough money I might even be able to have them prove global warming has nothing to with anything we are in control of.

But then of course theres the idea we all live in a World of Warcraft type computer game and are actualy being controlled by humans (we are merely artificial intelligence) and so global warming is pretty unimportant if you compare it to that...[/quote]

The scientific comunity is not into conspearacys, that is what governments do. The scentfic communtity on science like this (i.e physics e.t.c) can not really be lied about in the same way that other things can be.

Oh many compaies have tried to hire people to show that global warming is not man made at all but thier papers are just laughed at due to the poor science in them. So yes you can seem to prove anything but once people who work in the same field as you get their hands on it if it does not stand up to scrutinisation it will be torn to threads. science works on a massive peer review system one paper does not prove anything. It is a weight of evadance stance on which opions are made.

winston I'm more of a hippy than the one who calls himself hippy anyday....and I'm prepared to fight him over it!

OOhh internet threats are the bestest!

When the oil runs out we are all fscked. Industry would collapse, not just US industry. Raw materials can't be shipped. Food can't be processed or shipped. Most people are NOT self sufficient and could not live off what they could grow. I'd have to swim back to Australia and with all my bikes strapped to me it'd be tough going. Chaos. End of world. Wish I was a cockroach. Goodnight.

it would hardly affect at least two thirds of the world's population, those we call "poor" would suddenly become rich, rich with knowledge of how to live wiothout oil and consumerism....now that's what I call philf**kinlosophy

I'd call it revenge.

I wouldn't mind a crack at a world gone 'survival of the fittest' style. It be fun making a raft from the bloated bodies of pink-shirted city bankers..

http://www.worldwithoutus.com/did_you_know.html

So if we weren't here the world will eventually come to an end anyway due to heating because the sun is dying. Admittedly thats 5 billion years away, but still.