Amazing TDF stage today

Like that f***ing idiot Menonite wasn't either. What a joke.

Anybody remember the last line of 'the Great Rock'n'Roll Swindle'?

No

'Ever feel like you have been had?'

The news [of Vino's A sample positive for blood doping] broke while Saunier Duval was holding its press conference and its rider David Millar was asked to respond. "That is a surprise. I don't know what to say," a shocked Millar stated. "Vino is one of my favourite riders. He is a guy of class. Given what we have done, with our current situation, we may as well pack our bags and go home," continued the Scot.

After minute of reflection, he clarified, "No, I don't believe the Tour should stop here. We are 40 years after Simpson's death and the Tour still goes on."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/jul25news

So Cadel is the winner of the ITT?

How many Mennonites does it take to change a lightbulb?

No-one knows because they all continue denying that the lightbulb was ever changed.

I guess he is, but not until the B sample has been tested.

natureboy you've gotta feel for Vino though - what a shitty week he's had...

Yeah, not as bad as this week.

pre tour story comes true, I believe astana were mentioned post the tt victory that vino had been given a long term contract off the back of it
Mysterious 'men in black' cast a long, dark shadow
http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/othersport.cfm?id=1064562007

HERE come the men in black, and the organisers of Tour de France wish they wouldn't - they would also like to know who they are. When cycling's governing body, the UCI, recently revealed that they were monitoring a group of "seven or eight" cyclists who had been training in secret locations, in plain black clothing, there was feverish speculation as to who they might be.

The UCI referred to them, in deliberately sinister terms, only as the "men in black", adding that their suspicions centred on their possible use of illegal doping products. But most observers jumped to the same conclusion: the men in black were members of Astana, the team of this year's Tour favourite, Alexandre Vinokourov

Where there's smoke..
there's homologous blood transfusions?

Buffalo Bill I guess he is, but not until the B sample has been tested.

[quote]natureboy you've gotta feel for Vino though - what a shitty week he's had...

Yeah, not as bad as this week.[/quote]
Do you think he only decided to dope up at the end of last week to make up for his injury and dropping back so far? Not that it's an excuse, but I imagine he wanted to salvage something from his wreck of a tour.

Maybe. But he had the blood on hand to transfuse, which suggests a little bit of fore-thought. I don't know how these things work, but I think it must be harder to get a hold of the right blood in SW France at short notice than a few pills on a Friday night in Shoreditch.

yep, I'm right with you BB. What a shame. He has been performing in a somewhat inconsistent manner, which sort of gives the game away. Poor Kloeden, 5th in GC........or is he doing the vamp. thing as well?

Explains why the Astana support vehicles were searched as well.

Kloden is guilty by association. Do you really believe that if he rode on the same team as Riis, Zabel, Ullrich, all of whom have either confessed or been pretty conclusively fingered as dopers that he wasn't as well? I don't.

I am afraid that we have reached the point that pro racing cyclists should be considered guilty until proven innocent.

That's why the teams that are making most progress in this struggle are the ones that are doing 'lateral' (not sure the trans from French is) tests, checking marker values such as blood iron levels etc in an effort to make sure they know what their riders are putting into their systems.

The UCI has recently adopted this system, which was pioneered in France.

What is needed as well is for guys like Riis, Zabel, who have confessed to doping, to be integrated into the fight against doping, so that the authorities can get the inside on how it works. And for the guys like Hamilton, Ulrich and the Onanite, who still deny doping, to be excluded from cycling until they confess.

Agree re Kloden and your points on trying to test. I almost think they should not hold a Tour next year at all and make it clear that it is to allow time to try and clean the sport up.

Is the only solution to drastically shorten either the total length or the length of each stage (or both)? Make super endurance less of an issue?

Can't decide whether I feel sorry for Millar or not.

Backwardation Is the only solution to drastically shorten either the total length or the length of each stage (or both)? Make super endurance less of an issue?

No. Ben Jonson's event lasts less than 10sec and he still doped. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Johnson_(athlete) )
It's not the endurance that causes the doping, it's the desire to win, thee entrenched 'voodoo magic' culture passed down through the older riders to the newbies and the attitude that 'if they're doing it i have no chance so i must also do it'.

True, but isn't most of the doping in sprinters to build muscle whereas the cyclists are after bigger fuel tanks?

What difference does it make? The point is, performance enhancing substances will be taken no matter the sport's duration.

The Tour isn't 'too hard' for clean humans to finish.

Tour riders use things like Human Growth Hormone (HGH) for muscle 'repair', testosterone acts like steroids and can be for fat-burning as well as muscle building.
"triple Tour points winner Djamolidin Abdoujaparov, was banned for life in 1997 after taking clenbuterol."

Anything that can be taken will be taken and probably has been taken.