Lorries in London, it'd be alright if cyclists just saw their point of view.

mickster TheDude - Where does this 'one-sided view that cyclists are never to blame' come from? I don't hear anyone spouting it other than you. Outside of internet chat forums ie in the real world the blame seems to be consistently - and usually indefensibly - laid anywhere but at the feet of the motorist when tragedies occur. We've seen this with the 5 deaths referred to above, we've seen this with the 500 quid fine doled out to the driver at Rhyl, and we all experienced this in a less lethal form virtually every day we're on the roads when some cock cuts you up / passes too close / left turns on you. And there's yet another example of this already in the MT thread that Bill's referred to - a first hand report of a rider being told by plod that they shouldn't be on the road.

Whenever this debate comes up someone always comes back with the same old straw man argument about how they've been disgusted at the lack of regard many of their fellow cyclists show for other road users when they jump red lights, ride on pavements, without lights etc etc. But at heart this is nothing more than a load sanctimonious self-loathing twaddle intended to deflect attention from what we all know - by daily experience - to be the real issue; the very real lack of rights and protection under the law that cyclists are afforded by the authorities and courts whenever a bicycle/vehicle collision occurs.

I was referring to this forum specifically, and like I said in my first post I was playing the role as Devils advocate, trying to inspire debate, which I kinda have. All I said was if you break the law then your asking for trouble. I never condoned the actions of motorists who are oblivious to the dangers they pose to the cyclist and fully agree that cyclists should be afforded far greater rights when involved in an accident.